HjemGrupperSnakUdforskZeitgeist
Søg På Websted
På dette site bruger vi cookies til at levere vores ydelser, forbedre performance, til analyseformål, og (hvis brugeren ikke er logget ind) til reklamer. Ved at bruge LibraryThing anerkender du at have læst og forstået vores vilkår og betingelser inklusive vores politik for håndtering af brugeroplysninger. Din brug af dette site og dets ydelser er underlagt disse vilkår og betingelser.
Hide this

Resultater fra Google Bøger

Klik på en miniature for at gå til Google Books

Indlæser...

The Just City

af Jo Walton

Andre forfattere: Se andre forfattere sektionen.

Serier: Thessaly (1)

MedlemmerAnmeldelserPopularitetGennemsnitlig vurderingOmtaler
8536419,666 (3.84)76
Created as an experiment by the time-traveling goddess Pallas Athene, the Just City is a planned community, populated by over ten thousand children and a few hundred adult teachers from all eras of history, along with some handy robots from the far human future - all set down together on a Mediterranean island in the distant past. The student Simmea, born an Egyptian farmer's daughter sometime between 500 and 1000 A.D, is a brilliant child, eager for knowledge, ready to strive to be her best self. The teacher Maia was once Ethel, a young Victorian lady of much learning and few prospects, who prayed to Pallas Athene in an unguarded moment during a trip to Rome - and, in an instant, found herself in the Just City with grey-eyed Athene standing unmistakably before her. Meanwhile, Apollo - stunned by the realization that there are things mortals understand better than he does - has arranged to live a human life, and has come to the City as one of the children. He knows his true identity, and conceals it from his peers. For this lifetime, he is prone to all the troubles of being human. Then, a few years in, Sokrates arrives - the same Sokrates recorded by Plato himself - to ask all the troublesome questions you would expect.… (mere)
Indlæser...

Bliv medlem af LibraryThing for at finde ud af, om du vil kunne lide denne bog.

Der er ingen diskussionstråde på Snak om denne bog.

» Se også 76 omtaler

Engelsk (63)  Finsk (1)  Alle sprog (64)
Viser 1-5 af 64 (næste | vis alle)
There's an awful lot of set up in this book. More than I have the patience for right now.
  fionaanne | Nov 11, 2021 |
Closer to 4 stars than three.

A very difficult book to classify. One might say "The Just City" bears the same relationship to classical Greek philosophy that science fiction does to science.

It's a story about an experimental attempt to create a city that embodies the ideals of Plato's Republic, and the places where reality is simply incompatible with the ideal, thus illuminating flaws in that ideal.

It's a sort of philosophical parable; the characters in the Just City (which include both adults from various times, and children/youths of ancient Greece) care and talk about justice, slavery, excellence, deception, and friendship. The practice of rhetoric is central in the way that the practice of science is in SF.

The viewpoint characters include a couple of Greek gods. Don't let this put you off the book, or dismiss it as mythology: instead, accept them as real elements of the universe in which the book takes place. (Or, just consider them as aliens, if that's more familiar.)

I liked the book very much, except for the treatment of one theme; but I also perceive that treatment to be a strength of the book. (just, an unpleasant one to read)


The theme is rape.

Early on in the book, when they're still setting up the Just City and deciding how everything will work, one of the women is raped by one of the men. After arranging to go for a walk with her in private, he tells her that he wants to have sex with her, ignores her refusal, tells her that she wants to, rapes her, and then tells her that she enjoyed it.

Afterwards, she tells some of the other women about it, and they discuss whether to bring the matter before the emerging city government: clearly, this violates the principles of the Just City.

But they're legitimately afraid that it won't be treated as obviously wrong, because the adult population is dominated by men from eras in which women had no rights. And they're legitimately afraid that the controversy would doom the experiment from the start. Better to keep quiet, they decide. She'll just avoid him in future.

And so from the beginning, the experiment is poisoned.

The whole book isn't about this, but it keeps creeping up, breaking through, one way or another. It's very well done, but very disturbing, which is why I think it's a huge part of the point of the book.

This theme arguably serves as a concrete fictional example of the question often raised by feminist critique of the Western canon: if all the canonical writers are male, then what perspectives are thereby excluded from the canon? What problems, what themes, what practicalities won't be considered?


It's a very feminist book, in a very subtle way.

It does end on a bit of a cliffhanger, but at the same time it's the right place for a book about the Just City to end: when the city breaks down as a functioning social order. But it doesn't resolve any of the issues that caused that to happen.

I may read the sequel (I assume there will be one); in terms of characters and plot, I came to be reasonably invested and curious. But in terms of the rhetorical substance of the book, it feels satisfyingly complete. ( )
  VictoriaGaile | Oct 16, 2021 |
Walton, Jo. The Just City. Thessaly No. 1. Tor, 2015.
Jo Walton is a writer I know best for her excellent reviews of older science fiction and fantasy novels at Tor.com. The Just City is an intriguing novel of ideas based on Plato’s Republic. The Greek Gods are still alive and well. Apollo goes to Athena to ask why Daphne would rather be turned into a tree than give in to his sexual advances. The only way he will ever understand is to become human, so he does. Athena sends him to a city she has established on a doomed island. People from across time who have read Plato in the original Greek and have prayed sincerely to live in the Republic are brought to inhabit the city designed on Plato’s model. Apollo courts a young woman who only wants Platonic romance, and Socrates shows up to foster a revolution among the robots being used as slave labor. Along the way, we get good character development and lively philosophical debates about personal agency. Fun. 4 stars. ( )
  Tom-e | Sep 23, 2021 |
Clever and detailed, not to mention elegantly written, but ultimately the narrative is constrained by the very strictures it sets out to explore.

I have a pretty high tolerance for musing, thoughtful, character novels which ramble gently without heavy plot, and of course the promise of Socratic dialogue in spades was a huge draw.

However, the book did drag in places even for me; I found myself skimming Maia's sections but avidly reading Simmea's and Apollo's.

What definitively knocked the last star off for me was Sokrates. Any story which includes him as a character is always going to be taking a risk, since he is a phenomenally influential character for whom readers will have high expectations. I suspect only Plato or another Socratic scholar could have any hope of pulling it off.

Matt Hilliard once said that authors should refrain from writing messianic messages or sermons unless they are themselves Messiahs. I wonder if perhaps this also applies to writing philosophical arguments, when authors are not philosophers. The didactic rhetoric and Socratic dialogue often fell flat for me, with logical disconnects between arguments. I would also argue that Socratic dialogue isn't really debate; it's artificial and constructed to prove the main speaker's point. Walton seems to have aimed for a halfway point between true rhetoric and group discussion, but didn't quite nail either in many instances. Sokrates versus Athena carried well (the Final Debate) but not so much Sokrates and Simmea/Apollo.

The novel did offer a robust defense of the Republic which often gets much flack, although in the end it did come down firmly on the side of Plato's ideas being too unworkable in many cases.

I think its other strong point (I don't usually say this) is the thoughtful and scintillating examination of feminism in this context, with full nuance and no easy answers.

I would happily recommend to any fans of Jo Walton's other works, or fans of literary and/or philosophical science fantasy. ( )
  Sunyidean | Sep 7, 2021 |
You never know what you're going to get with a Jo Walton book, but it's always an interesting idea. I loved this one, maybe not as much as I adored Lent, but definitely up there with my favorite books this year. And there are two more for me to read! ( )
  Enno23 | Aug 15, 2021 |
Viser 1-5 af 64 (næste | vis alle)
The Just City is a glorious example of one of the primary purposes of speculative fiction: serving as a map to the potentials and miseries of a possible world. But it is also a map that should be scrawled with the words, “here be dragons.”
 
Brilliant, compelling, and frankly unputdownable, this will do what your Intro to Philosophy courses probably couldn't: make you want to read The Republic.
tilføjet af bluejo | RedigerNPR, Amal El-Mohtar (Jan 15, 2015)
 

» Tilføj andre forfattere

Forfatter navnRolleHvilken slags forfatterVærk?Status
Jo Waltonprimær forfatteralle udgaverberegnet
Sanzio, RaffaelloOmslagsfotograf/tegner/...medforfatternogle udgaverbekræftet
Stafford-Hill, JamieOmslagsdesignermedforfatternogle udgaverbekræftet
Du bliver nødt til at logge ind for at redigere data i Almen Viden.
For mere hjælp se Almen Viden hjælpesiden.
Kanonisk titel
Originaltitel
Alternative titler
Oprindelig udgivelsesdato
Personer/Figurer
Oplysninger fra den engelske Almen Viden Redigér teksten, så den bliver dansk.
Vigtige steder
Vigtige begivenheder
Beslægtede film
Priser og hædersbevisninger
Oplysninger fra den engelske Almen Viden Redigér teksten, så den bliver dansk.
Indskrift
Oplysninger fra den engelske Almen Viden Redigér teksten, så den bliver dansk.
Wherever you go, there are plenty of places where you will find a welcome; and if you choose to go to Thessaly, I have friends there who will make much of you and give you complete protection, so that no one in Thessaly can interfere with you.

—Plato, Crito
The triremes which defended Greece at Salamis defended Mars too.

—Ada Palmer, Dogs of Peace
Yes, I know, Plato; but if you always take the steps in threes, one day you will miss a cracked one.

—Mary Renault, The Last of the Wine
If you could take that first step
You could dance with Artemis
Beside Apollo Eleven.
—Jo Walton, "Submersible Moonphase"
Tilegnelse
Oplysninger fra den engelske Almen Viden Redigér teksten, så den bliver dansk.
This is for Ada, who took me to Bernini's Apollo.
Første ord
Oplysninger fra den engelske Almen Viden Redigér teksten, så den bliver dansk.
She turned into a tree. It was a Mystery. It must have been. Nothing else made sense, because I didn't understand it.
Citater
Sidste ord
Oplysninger fra den engelske Almen Viden Redigér teksten, så den bliver dansk.
(Klik for at vise Advarsel: Kan indeholde afsløringer.)
Oplysning om flertydighed
Forlagets redaktører
Oplysninger fra den engelske Almen Viden Redigér teksten, så den bliver dansk.
Bagsidecitater
Oplysninger fra den engelske Almen Viden Redigér teksten, så den bliver dansk.
Originalsprog
Oplysninger fra den engelske Almen Viden Redigér teksten, så den bliver dansk.
Canonical DDC/MDS
Canonical LCC

Henvisninger til dette værk andre steder.

Wikipedia på engelsk (2)

Created as an experiment by the time-traveling goddess Pallas Athene, the Just City is a planned community, populated by over ten thousand children and a few hundred adult teachers from all eras of history, along with some handy robots from the far human future - all set down together on a Mediterranean island in the distant past. The student Simmea, born an Egyptian farmer's daughter sometime between 500 and 1000 A.D, is a brilliant child, eager for knowledge, ready to strive to be her best self. The teacher Maia was once Ethel, a young Victorian lady of much learning and few prospects, who prayed to Pallas Athene in an unguarded moment during a trip to Rome - and, in an instant, found herself in the Just City with grey-eyed Athene standing unmistakably before her. Meanwhile, Apollo - stunned by the realization that there are things mortals understand better than he does - has arranged to live a human life, and has come to the City as one of the children. He knows his true identity, and conceals it from his peers. For this lifetime, he is prone to all the troubles of being human. Then, a few years in, Sokrates arrives - the same Sokrates recorded by Plato himself - to ask all the troublesome questions you would expect.

No library descriptions found.

Beskrivelse af bogen
Haiku-resume

Populære omslag

Quick Links

Vurdering

Gennemsnit: (3.84)
0.5
1 5
1.5
2 15
2.5 1
3 45
3.5 16
4 95
4.5 18
5 51

Er det dig?

Bliv LibraryThing-forfatter.

 

Om | Kontakt | LibraryThing.com | Brugerbetingelser/Håndtering af brugeroplysninger | Hjælp/FAQs | Blog | Butik | APIs | TinyCat | Efterladte biblioteker | Tidlige Anmeldere | Almen Viden | 164,411,686 bøger! | Topbjælke: Altid synlig