Design Decision: Chemise $70 Reallocation

SnakConsensus Press

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Design Decision: Chemise $70 Reallocation

1grifgon
apr 17, 2023, 1:49 am

Hi everybody! It looks like the chemise has been dropped by an overwhelmingly vote. Since that frees up $70 (USD!!!) per book, I think we had better determine what to do with those funds.

Here are a few ideas. If anybody has another idea, please feel free to post it!!!

2grifgon
apr 17, 2023, 1:49 am

Stem: Refund each order $ 70 now.

Nuværende optælling: Ja 20, Nej 27, Ved ikke 2

3grifgon
Redigeret: apr 17, 2023, 3:25 am

Stem: Tell Mark (the designer) that he has more leeway with the layout – e.g. increased page count, more multicolor printing – and ultimately leave the specifics up to him.

Nuværende optælling: Ja 33, Nej 9, Ved ikke 3

4grifgon
apr 17, 2023, 1:53 am

Stem: Switch from Johannot to a more expensive paper – e.g. Khadi or Velke Losiny.

Nuværende optælling: Ja 41, Nej 5, Ved ikke 3

5grifgon
apr 17, 2023, 1:54 am

Stem: Leave the decision up to Glacierman, the proposer – i.e. Glacierman Rex, dictator.

Nuværende optælling: Ja 3, Nej 41, Ved ikke 1

6grifgon
apr 17, 2023, 1:54 am

Stem: Do nothing. Leave the funds until the edition is finished and then decide what to do.

Nuværende optælling: Ja 0, Nej 47

7jsg1976
apr 17, 2023, 3:50 am

>3 grifgon: I think we should try to poll this one more specifically. I for one am all for more two color printing, but not arbitrarily increasing the page count just because we can afford more paper.

Also, if this wasn’t already your plan, consider taking the top 2 or 3 polling options and doing a run-off for which option to pick.

8EdmundRodriguez
apr 17, 2023, 4:15 am

>7 jsg1976: I like the way the layout question is worded, give the designer more freedom. If Mark thinks adding a few pages will result in a tangible improvement in the end product, then I expect he would do it (but wouldn't just do it for the sake of it), similarly with the scope and extent of two colour printing etc.

I'm in favour of some delegation to the experts, rather than trying to manage every detail through votes.

9Shadekeep
apr 17, 2023, 10:03 am

I like the idea of the designers coming up with what they'd spend the money on, and then us chiming in on which of those we'd most like to see.

10kermaier
apr 17, 2023, 10:51 am

I voted yes, no or undecided on each of the polls, to indicate which directions I'd be OK with -- was that the intended procedure?

11grifgon
apr 17, 2023, 11:26 am

>10 kermaier: That's what I've done!

>7 jsg1976: I think the effect of multiple polls where you can vote "Yes" or "No" on each is that we basically have an instant run-off.

>8 EdmundRodriguez: >9 Shadekeep: Agreed. I also like the idea of upgrading to handmade paper though : - D

12kermaier
Redigeret: apr 17, 2023, 11:34 am

>11 grifgon: Could there be a way to express a ranked-order preference for the various options?

I.e., my preferences would be:
1. Upgrade to handmade paper
2. Let the designer upgrade the design at his discretion within the additional budget.
3. Refund the extra money.

13Glacierman
apr 17, 2023, 12:28 pm

>5 grifgon: Hey! I'm no dictator!

14Shadekeep
apr 17, 2023, 9:29 pm

>11 grifgon: Oh I can definitely get behind handmade paper for this! I was very pleased with the Khadi paper in the latest from Factotum Pers, and think it could be an excellent match here.

15Praveenna_Nagaratnam
Redigeret: apr 17, 2023, 10:14 pm

>12 kermaier: Same order of preference here too. I think we should do a ranked poll. Would the paper upgrade cost 70 cad per copy? or would there be leftover for Mark to make some design changes as well?

16Glacierman
apr 17, 2023, 11:09 pm

Ranked polling seems like an unnecessary complication to me, but if all y'all want to do it that way, have at it!

17elladan0891
apr 19, 2023, 12:22 pm

Is it possible to send out emails to all members whenever such votes come up? It's fine to simply direct members to the forum to vote, but I think it's essential to let members know that important decisions requiring member input are being made. It's not reasonable to expect members to check LT daily in case something comes up, even if many do.

I used to be a regular on LT for several years. However, in the past few years frequency of my visits decreased and became irregular. Lately I’ve been extremely busy with various things and haven’t posted on LT since December, I think. I found out about the vote to switch from Algernon to Sinuhe only from email. That email prompted me to check LT for the first time in months to see what was going on. During ranked voting Sinuhe was my #1 choice, so I was perfectly happy with the switch. However, even then I was going to write an LT post thanking ambyrglow for throwing the wrench into LT vote (quoted below) even though I was only happy to vote for Sinuhe – specifically because I didn’t want to miss any future votes or decision-making points requiring member input.

I am going to be the one to throw a wrench in the works, I guess: I think the decision to switch titles is big enough that it deserves being put before the entire membership, and I have no reason to believe that most members check this forum on a daily basis. I don't object per se to Sinuhe but I do object to skipping the balloting process.

Unfortunately, I never got a chance to get to writing the post thanking ambyrglow and emphasizing the importance of letting members now their input is required. Only today I finally got some free time to check LT - luckily more or less on time for some more decision-making already going on.

Case in point - we're already discussing how to allocate freed money, while there is a financial question worth $70 USD (refund or use) that was not officially brought up to the membership, with only 40-something members having voted on it. Currently the distribution of votes is such that the result might possibly be different from what it is now if all members vote - even if you narrow down the voting base to only those who placed orders. Not that I think the voting base should be narrowed down - perhaps some members who haven't placed orders yet would do so if the price does drop by $70 and I think they should have a voice in this as well.

I think all members deserve the right to know such decisions are being made and their input is required. A simple email directing members to the forum would do the job.

18consensuspress
apr 19, 2023, 12:54 pm

>17 elladan0891: The full membership will be asked to vote with an emailed ballot to approve changes to the proposal. We are waiting until after the May 1 deadline, because only members who have actually ordered The Tale of Sinuhe should be able to change it. In the meantime, this forum is being used to discuss and shape proposed changes.

19elladan0891
apr 19, 2023, 2:46 pm

>18 consensuspress: Great! Thanks for responding

20elladan0891
apr 19, 2023, 3:05 pm

While I have to admit that the prospect of Velke Losiny paper is quite drool-inspiring, I wonder what thoughts Mark Askam has on all this. Hope he can weigh in here

21grifgon
Redigeret: apr 19, 2023, 4:19 pm

>20 elladan0891: Obviously Mark can speak for himself (where art thou chestnutpress?), but behind the scenes he's seemed enthusiastic! He reached out to a few esteemed printing colleagues to check whether Velke Losiny can be printed dry with great results, and we learned that it can. Max Koch, the printer, has also confirmed he would be happy with the change.

Velke Losiny is a tried and true (maybe the tried and true) handmade paper. It is widely available, won't break the bank, and should add that extra bit of handicraft to put The Tale of Sinuhe over the top as a topnotch fine press edition. I'm all for it.

22grifgon
Redigeret: apr 19, 2023, 4:35 pm

It's also worth noting explicitly, in case this isn't intuitive to members, that a change in the paper necessitates a change in the format. In the case of switching from Johannot to Velke Losiny (specifically its "Prague" line, made specially for letterpress, though we have another line of inquiry open as well), the book would change from ~ 6.5 X 9.5 to ~ 5.75 X 8.25 inches in octavo format (as specified by the proposal). Since writing this an hour ago, it's actually looking like our other line of inquiry is looking more likely, which would give Mark more freedom in what format he designs.

23jsg1976
apr 19, 2023, 4:26 pm

Is Velke Losiny the same as the Czech Losin paper that the Whittington Press used in Pages from Presses II? I know that was a special batch with the WP pressmark, but that paper is outstanding.

24grifgon
apr 19, 2023, 4:34 pm

>23 jsg1976: Yep!

We're waiting to hear back from the mill on some details, but things are looking up.

25Glacierman
apr 19, 2023, 5:17 pm

Ah, the behind-the-scenes convo is most interesting. I think you will all be very, very happy with the results. Yeah. You will.

26ChestnutPress
apr 19, 2023, 5:17 pm

>20 elladan0891: I wholeheartedly agree with the proposal of dropping the chemise and allocating the funds for Velke Losiny handmade paper. Their papers are gorgeous and print beautifully. I have a few editions (including one of my own publications) printed on their stocks and all look wonderful. The aesthetics of 'Sinuhe' will be upped considerably by its use. Additionally, the particular paper most likely to be used will give us a larger page size, which will also help the edition look better.

27ChestnutPress
apr 19, 2023, 5:19 pm

>23 jsg1976: Yes. Losin is the common name we use for their papers over here in the UK

28ultrarightist
apr 19, 2023, 5:40 pm

>26 ChestnutPress: Good news and very encouraging!

29Dr.Fiddy
apr 19, 2023, 6:26 pm

>26 ChestnutPress: Sounds great!

30elladan0891
apr 20, 2023, 9:16 am

>26 ChestnutPress: I thought it would be a lovely improvement, but wanted to hear an opinion of the professional who is actually designing the book. Thanks for chiming in!

31ChestnutPress
apr 20, 2023, 1:50 pm

>30 elladan0891: As I am the professional designing the book, then I hope my response suits

32EdmundRodriguez
apr 20, 2023, 2:08 pm

Sounds very exciting!

33elladan0891
apr 20, 2023, 2:38 pm

>31 ChestnutPress: I know, Mark :)
What I meant is that as soon as I saw Velke Losiny as a possible option in the beginning of the thread, it immediately sounded like a particularly good idea. However, not being a professional bookmaker, I didn't want to jump on the bandwagon right away, and before voting in the poll in >4 grifgon: wanted to check what you, the designer of the book, think about it. Perhaps it might not have been a good fit because of size, compatibility with the chosen letterpress method/machine, etc.; or perhaps you had alternative ideas. I knew who you are and was actually thanking you for your response )

34ChestnutPress
apr 20, 2023, 2:41 pm

>33 elladan0891: Excellent!

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