Personal names in the format Familyname Givenname

This subject has been touched on before, but threads tend to wander off without a clear answer.

江泽民 (Jiang Zemin), the president of China, 1993-2003, died earlier today, and I've been adding some CK. In common with a number of other languages, Chinese names are in the format Familyname Givenname. When the LT CK fields Canonical name, Legal name and Other names ask us to fill these in "Lastname, Firstname" does it mean that literally, including Chinese "Givenname, Familyname", or is LT looking for a consistent western-centric "Familyname, Givenname"?

Thanks.

I'd assume that the field should be filled out so that the result becomes what they are called in Western (US) media and publications. If LibraryThing supported language-specific names, the canonical name would of course vary by language, but it doesn't. So, in this case, "Zemin, Jiang".

"Zemin, Jiang" would sort under Z, which surely nobody wants. Wouldn't it be better to write simply "Jiang Zemin", which displays correctly and sorts correctly?

>3 AndreasJ: gives the answer I would expect.

>3 AndreasJ: Agree. After all there are cases with no first and last name and they display correctly, e.g Dalai Lama XIV

>3 AndreasJ: >4 MarthaJeanne: Yes, but the notes under the fields specifically say ""Lastname, Firstname" as in Tolkien, J.R.R". I can imagine LT is doing some csv data-handling jiggery-pokery behind the curtains, and wants the comma when appropriate.

But of course inputting Jiang Zemin as "Jiang, Zemin" will create his author page as "Zemin Jiang". Which no-one wants.

P.S. Also relates to the Relationships field.

>6 Cynfelyn: "wants the comma when appropriate." The comma is not appropriate here.

Not all names in all languages work the same. Some (Chinese, Hungarian) use the family name first. Adapt. Also I refuse to use Icelandic (etc) patronyms as family names.

>8 Nicole_VanK: Yes, the Icelandic names are another example. they should be alphabatized by the personal name.

Leonardo da Vinci was a guy called Leonardo, a non-legitimate child born in the town called Vinci. It was never part of his actual name - he didn't have one except for Leonardo. It's like saying Leonard from New York and making "from New York" his family name.

Surely this is why we have the Canonical Name and Legal Name fields. The Canonical Name is what the person is generally known as in the language of your local LT. Whether you put "Leonardo da Vinci" or "Vinci, Leonardo da" or "da Vinci, Leonardo" doesn't really matter in this field as long as it puts the canonical name on the top of the page as Leonardo da Vinci. Similarly Jiang Zemin is canonically known in English as Jiang Zemin and should be Zemin, Jiang in Canonical Name and Jiang, Zemin in Legal Name.

Or have I completely misunderstood?

Please do NOT use canonical names unless they are really needed.

If Jiang Zemin needs a canonical name, It should be Jiang Zemin.

I would say that this is an example where the canonical name is needed!

Otherwise why have a canonical name field if it isn;t for resolving these sorts of problems?

>14 elahrairah: Yes, but it shouldn't be used to hypercorrect things - like changing Mao Zedong to Zedong Mao. In some traditions the family name comes first anyway, so that's fine as is.