Art & Music & Writing

SnakHobnob with Authors

Bliv bruger af LibraryThing, hvis du vil skrive et indlæg

Art & Music & Writing

1LShelby
feb 28, 2020, 7:06 pm

I've noticed that a lot of writers who are also artists or musicians have been appearing in the group, so I thought I'd start a topic where we could talk about how art and music influence writing and vice versa.

For the people who create two or more of these, how is the creation process different between them, and how is it the same?

Have you ever written something because you were inspired by art or music. Have you ever created art or music because you were inspired by a piece of writing?

As readers/viewers/listeners, do we find one kind of art more meaningful when it has connections to other kinds of art? What examples can we think of?

2jeffschanz
feb 29, 2020, 9:42 am

I've always been a visual artist, got a BFA in traditional art (drawing, painting), MFA in computer art, and am a professional animator.
I used to paint abstract expressionism as my favorite type. Let the medium dictate the outcome. In some ways my writing is similar.
I also am practiced at realistic drawing and painting, painstaking attention to detail, and I have that quality when trying to edit.
It might also have an influence on my descriptive passages. I don't like to over describe things. Keep it simple, get the idea, move on to the good stuff. If I really want to show someone how something looks, I'd prefer to just paint it rather than use flowery words.

3paradoxosalpha
feb 29, 2020, 11:39 am

My principal non-textual art is ceremony/ritual/liturgy, which has many things in common with theater (my BA major was theater), but isn't really the same thing. I very actively work the boundary between these two. I look for ceremonial set-pieces in fiction, and I've written a few into my current WIP.

Ceremony itself may be inspired by visual art, music, or poetry, and incorporate them in various ways.

4LeonStevens
feb 29, 2020, 1:37 pm

Some of my musical compositions have inspired my writing or sketches and vice versa. I wrote a poem on the loss of a friendship and a short guitar composition came out of that. Another om my guitar pieces inspired me to combine it with a sketch that I had done as a frame by frame evolution of the finished sketch.

As for writing, some of my writings have come after I finished a drawing-spawning a poem of short story.

I have these creations on my website if you care to see them.

5LShelby
mar 1, 2020, 11:05 pm

>2 jeffschanz: "I don't like to over describe things. Keep it simple, get the idea, move on to the good stuff. If I really want to show someone how something looks, I'd prefer to just paint it rather than use flowery words."

I find it interesting that you say you think being an artist makes you want to get the idea and move on, rather than dwelling on description.

One often repeated piece of writing advice is "Show don't Tell" My writing mentor pointed out that from one way of looking at it, it's completely nonsense: all writing is telling because writing uses words, not pictures. But it's not bad advice, it's just sort of incomplete advice, because what it is really trying to say is about is controlling the type and level of detail.

I'm guessing as an artist--an animator, especially--you know perfectly well that books don't really show, that they don't need to show, that what they are doing is something else.
As you said, it is conveying an idea.

I had been writing for many years before I first tried my hand at a graphic novel. After I finished my first attempt, I tried to then convert it back to a written form. I discovered that my descriptions in that novelization weren't as good as my descriptions usually were. My eventual conclusion was that being too aware of what absolutely everything in the scene looked like, had distracted me from focusing on writing a description that moved the story along. The resulting descriptions had random unimportant details that didn't properly support the mood/atmosphere and didn't convey the overall idea of what was there, making them feel clunky, and unfocussed. In short, they all need to be rewritten from scratch.

So, I'm curious. Do you think it's easier to take a picture, and pick out what important visual ideas need to be expressed in writing. Or easier to take a piece of writing, and fill in all the missing "what does this actually look like" that isn't actually there (or at least, probably shouldn't be)?

Another thing I'm curious about: is there an animation equivalent of focussing on what moves the story along?

>3 paradoxosalpha:

I think that the most common theory is that theater was developed from ceremony. :)

(My 3rd daughter is a theater major, technical focus. She loves set painting best, but is always delighted to help with spotlights, soundboards, costumes... anything that doesn't force her up on the catwalks above the stage.)

You make a good point that theater incorporates, or at least can incorporate all the other arts. (Movies also, since that a form of theater.)

But I never would have included "ceremony" in a list of arts, so I'm glad you reminded me that it belongs there. :)

I had a writer friend who explained that he thinks that ceremonies like weddings, religious services and so on, are very, very important to world-building because they say so much about the culture they arise from. So I've always tried to keep that in mind.

When you create your ceremonies, how do you decide on which of the other arts to include where? Are there things that you think are easier to convey with one art rather than another?

>4 LeonStevens:
I wanted to say in regards to your posts from the introductions thread, that I think the reason I thought of 'cute' as a descriptor, was because in the two sketches of yours I'd seen, the size of the image's focus, compared to the total size of the picture, gave a sense of smallness. And so, "cute". Because that's for little things. (Also furry things, and things with big eyes, but, for me, not attractive members of the opposite sex so much, although I am aware that culturally the term is used that way.)

The sense of smallness exists because has been created with a contrasting sense of space. Which fit the theme that you said you were trying to convey.

But it leaves me failing to be able to imagine what your post-apocalyptic pictures might look like. :)

The poem on loss of friendship inspiring a musical composition I can sort of follow in my head because I think of music as largely a medium for conveying emotion, (and then Bach happens, and I get confused, because I consider Bach's compositions pretty darn awesome, and yet, somehow, not all that emotional.)

But how did you get from a musical piece to a frame by frame of a picture? (It's a creation story!)

I seem to go the other way most often. I started working on this space pirate graphic novel, and it decided it wanted a soundtrack. I kept accumulating musical pieces for it. (Mostly just melodies and lyrics.) I have a grandiose space theme, an angry young men pirate's theme, the heroine's fight theme, two love themes (because it's a love triangle, sigh), themes for the two male leads, and a totally irrelevant to the story end credits song.

I had various ideas I'd been kicking around for the villain's theme, and a fight theme for the rivals, but I started trying to work on doing this harmony and arranging stuff more a few years back, and somehow I haven't written any new songs since. :(

I intend to go check out your website. I often do check out the websites of people who talk to me here. But I keep thinking I should get caught up on what everyone has been saying here in the group first...
... and so far I haven't managed to get caught up.
(I talk slow?)

This makes me happy in general, because I think it's great that people are talking, but I feel bad about not checking out links. If I ever do get caught up I will start a new thread specifically asking for people to post their website links.

6LeonStevens
mar 2, 2020, 9:43 am

>5 LShelby:

"But it leaves me failing to be able to imagine what your post-apocalyptic pictures might look like. :)"

-Haven't done any of these yet...Just some poems and stories so far.

"But how did you get from a musical piece to a frame by frame of a picture? (It's a creation story!)"

-With the loss poem I had the poem written already and one day I was composing on my guitar ( I call it composing but it starts out as "noodling"-i just sit and start experimenting with different notes) and the words flashed into my mind. It also made me cry...

For "The Journey" I was playing around with video editing and I had a sketch which I began to delete bit by bit and saved each frame, then put them into reverse order. The music just seemed to fit.

7paradoxosalpha
mar 2, 2020, 1:59 pm

>5 LShelby: When you create your ceremonies, how do you decide on which of the other arts to include where? Are there things that you think are easier to convey with one art rather than another?

A lot of thought has to go in to what should be specified and what should be left up to implementation. Vestments (costumes) e.g. usually need to be coded out in terms of color, but not usually in terms of cut or style. Music can have very different effects: it can just supply emotional context, it can be presentational singing/chanting, or it can be congregational involvement through song.

Ceremonial speech tends to vary between poetry and prose. Poetry has mnemonic value above and beyond its effect of stylizing speech. Another common device in ritual composition is the quotation of scripture.

8jeffschanz
mar 2, 2020, 2:11 pm

>1 LShelby: LShelby
I don't skimp on descriptions. In fact, there's plenty of times where I worry I spend too much time doing it. To me, descriptions are things to treat with caution because they can bog down a flow. Especially over things that everyone already knows. Paint the literary picture to create a flavor, or point out necessary things, then get to the point. I can't tell you how many books I've read that I've slogged through flowery descriptives because the author wanted to show off their keen vocabulary and prose. Not interested. I guess that was my point. As a visual artist, I'm not so impressed with my prose that I want to dwell on painting pictures with words.
That said, I spent some time in my "Vampyre" novel describing the picturesque views from the island. Not everyone has had that experience, and I felt I needed to point out its beauty to those who've never seen that view. It did have a point to the story, at least. But I did my best to make only a few pretty phrases and move along.

As far as being an animator versus an author... the only connection I would relate is the desire and joy of creating life to characters. Feels similar. So, I guess I tend to focus on the characters as much as I can because that's where my interest truly is. :)

9christopher.stewart
mar 5, 2020, 10:22 pm

hey !

Leon, i visited your website, Lines by Leon, i very much like the overall feeling and the economical design... i also checked out two of your videos... i like your idea for "The Journey"... simple and effective... i hope your fundraiser is successful !

i have two stories of my own relating to the topic... one about music & art, and one about music and writing...

first story : in january, i was recording an instrumental called "Rising From The Ashes"... i wanted to make a video for it, but it's a 7-minute piece, and i wanted to release it before the end of the month, so editing a conceptual video seemed out of the question, and i decided to do a "listening video" instead (i.e. more of a static, one image thing)... luckily enough, while mixing and editing the music, i had started painting a piece inspired by the title, and then the following day added two more... and during that week of mixing i worked on those three paintings for about one hour every day, and i took photos at the end of the sessions... so when came time to make the video, i thought of using the paintings... i edited five daily pictures of my favourite of the three paintings so that they would roughly match in terms of size, angle, and zoom, and then i used a video encoding library called ffmpeg to morph the images into a video... the results were satisfying enough so i went along with that idea... there's a link to my youtube channel on my author page if you want to check it out...

second story : around september of 2017, i was invited to join the house band of a local community organization... after talking about repertoire with the musical director for while, i suggested that we choose the songs so as to tell a story... and since the organization was helping people with mental health and drug-related issues, i suggested that the story be about addiction... the idea caught on and eventually we decided to actually write songs of our own, and then the idea of creating a rock opera seems very appealing... none of us had any experience with that kind of project... so i began mindmapping ideas, and then the mindmap turned into an open office document, and soon enough i was writing a "chronology" of the events in the life of the main character... the aim was to have some sort of "story bible" to refer to so as the organize the whole thing... i ended up writing about 90 page of "events, or "scenes", or "moments"... i'm not quite sure which term best applies... as the process unfolded, the scenes became more detailed, so while the beginning is more sketchy and basic, the more recent pages are closer to a novel, without the dialog... and during that writing phase, as i discovered the story, inspiration came for about 20 songs, for which i made fairly complete demos, in midi format... i'm not sure if that's how one is supposed to write a rock opera, but that's how it happened for me... sadly enough though, the project was shelved when the musical director had to retire because of health issues, and a few months later he lost his fight against cancer... in the meantime, i started writing an essay on social organization, triggered by conversations with social workers i had had while researching certains things about the life of a homeless drug addict, such as details about how things work in a shelter, and that kind of stuff... so, basically now, although the project is far from completed, i have enough material for a novel, enough music for two albums, and a 200+ page essay nearly done...

and as i write this i realize that i should return to that project as soon as possible... i must have missed a turn somewhere and went astray... it was really the best game plan... probably still is...

it felt good writing here... seems that i needed that today... thank you ! :o)

best wishes,
Chris

p.s. how do i add the ">n person name:" link at the beginning of a reply ?

10christopher.stewart
mar 5, 2020, 10:31 pm

forgot two important details : the main character of the story is a young painter at heart that was discouraged from following his passion by his family, and who heals through art... and the community organization where it all started is actually employing visual arts to develop therapeutic relationships with its clients... they have an art gallery, and exhibitions, and recently launched the first art hive in town...

11LeonStevens
mar 6, 2020, 8:59 am

>9 christopher.stewart: Thank you for the supportive words. I write in spurts as well. I started to blog just to give me a reason to write and I've come up with some good posts. I wrote my first article on Vocal as well.

I have a poem about addiction:

Addiction

Addiction is a hand
On your back
Pushing you forward
Without regard
For the crowd
Addiction covers your eyes
So that you cannot see
The harm being done
Addiction plugs your ears
And makes you oblivious
Addiction shushes you
When you try to ask for help
Addiction is strong
Until you face it
Unblinking
Unmoving
Then it cowers and slinks away
As you kick, kick, kick
Giving it
What it deserves

To answer your question "p.s. how do i add the ">n person name:" link at the beginning of a reply ?" :

Left Square bracket > 9 Right Square bracket

12christopher.stewart
mar 6, 2020, 9:41 am

>11 LeonStevens:

nice poem Leon...

thanks for the tip !

13LeonStevens
mar 7, 2020, 10:36 am

>12 christopher.stewart: Thank you and your welcome.

14LShelby
mar 9, 2020, 8:13 pm

>6 LeonStevens: "I was composing on my guitar ( I call it composing but it starts out as "noodling"-i just sit and start experimenting with different notes) and the words flashed into my mind. It also made me cry..."

I had a tune flash in my head while I was, I thought, just writing words. I was composing a song for a text-based MMORG, in which I was playing a bard, and as I worked on the lyrics, suddenly a tune started playing along, and it just fit perfectly.

Unfortunately, it wasn't my tune. ::rueful::

"For "The Journey" I was playing around with video editing and I had a sketch which I began to delete bit by bit"

Aha, that's how it's done! You make it backward. I have a sneaking suspicion I will make use of that technique one of these days.

BTW, I thought noodling was one of the staples of musical composition. Even when I'm coming up with stuff in my head, it's essentially the same process, isn't it? Just randomly pull out notes until something feels right?

Sometimes I have a... musical shape, or a musical form I'm aiming for. But for me, that's much rarer, except in the case where I have already got lyrics, and then, well, the music needs to fit them...
But, no, even then I think I still usually noodle, just I include the words in my noodling,
Noodle-singing. :)

Do you always noodle, or have you occasionally approach putting music together in a more deliberate manner?

>7 paradoxosalpha:
So if color of costume is more important than cut...
Emotional effect and visual clarification. The color-blocking helps differentiate the visual shapes, you are creating?

Weddings tend to put more importance on color than cut too. At least traditional ones. (Ha! This is good stuff. I am discovering some frameworks I can use to built ceremonies for differing cultures and purposes.)

Total aside here: I saw a wedding dress made out of surgical gloves once, in a museum. I'm not sure what statement it was supposed to be making. It would certainly get you noticed, but I wouldn't want my wedding to be about that.

Back to thinking about how rituals work. Poetry for memonics, and quoting because that helps unify the audience with the presenters (shared info), and provides a handy mental shortcut to the quote's context? (Most quotes take up more intellectual space than the quote itself.)

What about shapes? How do you figure out where everything needs to be?

>8 jeffschanz: "As far as being an animator versus an author... the only connection I would relate is the desire and joy of creating life to characters. Feels similar. So, I guess I tend to focus on the characters as much as I can because that's where my interest truly is. :)"

I remember reading some advice to would be animators from someone at Pixar, and they were saying that way too often the demos they got had spaceships zooming around in space showing prettiness and movement, when what they should have been aiming for was showing character.
(Which immediately made me want to do something that showed spaceships with personalities... I mean, if you can do it for Cars, you can do it with spaceships too, right?)

But I confess that if I hadn't had someone tell me, it would have taken me a while to figure out that character is the heart of animation.

It's the heart of a lot of stories, but there are stories where characters aren't the focus. "Idea" stories. And I would think that ideas would be an easier thing to do with animation...

...but maybe that's the point? Character is the hard to do right, and that's why it's the focus. The setting can just be there in the background, the plot can be moved forward with a series of stills... But a character needs to be constantly moving *IN CHARACTER* or the whole illusion of reality goes poof!

And emotion, too. You can do a lot with color and composition, but people tend respond most strongly to other people. (Or 'peoplized' animals or objects.)

>9 christopher.stewart:

Loved the stories!
An opera about healing through art... wow, talk about on topic. :)

"and as i write this i realize that i should return to that project as soon as possible... i must have missed a turn somewhere and went astray... it was really the best game plan... probably still is...

it felt good writing here... seems that i needed that today... thank you ! :o)


This is the magic of a having a group to post to. In the midst of explaining something to someone else, suddenly you realize something about it for yourself that you hadn't seen before.

Please report back on how the project is going, I'm very curious. :)

>11 LeonStevens:
I happened to see some talk show or something while in the Pharmacy, and it was a pure illustration of lines 6-10. Otherwise I might not be able to see how true those lines are, because I really don't have an personal experience with this.
(Hopefully I will eventually need to research it, though, because there's this book in my head...)

15BlancheHaddow
mar 10, 2020, 11:27 am


For all my creating, photography, art and writing, I get "lost" in them and that is when time disappears a very healing and productive time.

For photography it is also about getting lost in the world around me and becoming part of it, so it is not all photography but sitting quiet for a long time can create those magic moments when a creature might not realise that you are there and therefore provide a wonderful photo opportunity.

For art it takes me a long time to get around to it but when I do and get on, then the "magic" works best when I stop worrying about how or what it looks like and just get on with the process.

For writing there are the times for thoughts, ideas, notes etc the building or designing and planning time but then once the "framework" is in place then the actual getting on and writing time is when getting "lost" in the process works again and the actual work appears.

I love listening to music and listen to it everyday of my life. I love a large mixture of music from rock, country, classical etc although I am completely out of date with the last few decades. I am very slowly, over the years, learning to play the piano just by practicing for a small amount of time each day.

When out on walks for photography, I have no music but the sounds of the natural world, river etc are my music.
For art I can have my music on that I can sing along to. I love singing away to my CDs when on my own!
For writing I have managed to build up a nice collection of classical music on my Spotify as I love listening to music but can't have the singing on as it would distract me.

The 3 things or types of "art" for me are all different and separate processes although my writing or projects could be inspired by my walks in nature and as I have a picture head and remember things by my photographs or what I see, that could all be connected.

I also would love to have the time and motivation, one day, to paint all my photographs which would keep me going for ever!

16LeonStevens
mar 10, 2020, 5:05 pm

>14 LShelby: I started with the finished illustration and took out a few pixels (or maybe 20) at a time and saved each frame then realized that I had to reorder. Holy carpel tunnel!

I often will have a melody that I will harmonize, although much it trial and error - "Nope, that don't sound right.."

What instrument do you play? (Yes, voice is one)

17LShelby
mar 12, 2020, 7:03 pm

>15 BlancheHaddow: "The 3 things or types of "art" for me are all different and separate processes although my writing or projects could be inspired by my walks in nature and as I have a picture head and remember things by my photographs or what I see, that could all be connected. "

Similar inspirations, different processes?

I can't really imagine singing while I'm painting. I just get too focused on what I'm doing.

My daughter likes to watch, or rather, listen to movies, or audiobooks.

>16 LeonStevens:
Reorder? Eep!

I had a friend who was a professional musician look at my stuff years ago, and he said all my accompaniments were counter-melodies. So now I try really hard to come up with actual chords. Not because there's anything wrong with counter melodies, but I don't want that to be the only tool in my kit.

I play an English concertina.
Mostly when I announce this I get a 'what is that?' response.
It's a squeeze box, like an accordion, but the buttons are arranged differently. On the English the button arrangement is designed to facilitate the playing of melodies and close harmonies.

I used to sing, but currently I have no voice. Which is an issue because almost all the music I have written and collected is vocal music, (with the concertina playing the accompaniment,) so my practice sessions have been a bit aimless recently.

Sometimes I play the recorder, because its cheap, hardy, and immune to weather.

18reading_fox
mar 13, 2020, 6:51 am

>17 LShelby: - I used (a very long time ago) play in a large mixed recorder group, we had all 7 different sizes which enabled a lot of versatility. Although often dismissed because of its primary school connotations, professional (better than I was!) recorder music can be as wonderful as anything else.

19LShelby
mar 13, 2020, 3:36 pm

Seven sizes? I only know about soprano, alto, tenor and bass. And those lower register recorders, they are umpteen times more expensive.

I recently bought myself an alto recorder, which cost me four times as much as the soprano, but it's still an insignificant amount, so I can feel comfortable carrying it with me into the back-woods, or what-have-you.

Today for my music practice I dug out a solo score for Flight of the Bumblebee that I grabbed free off the internet somewhere, and started trying to work out the fingering on my concertina. That ought to keep me busy for a while.

20LeonStevens
Redigeret: mar 14, 2020, 9:27 am

Nothing wrong with recorder. I enjoy listening to early Renaissance music. I play recorder as well (not well...). I did once attempt to play accordion, but I don't remember why I stopped.

Flight of the Bumblebee? Nice!

21paradoxosalpha
mar 14, 2020, 11:35 am

I play penny whistle--even less sophisticated than the recorder! I have 'em in half a dozen keys.

22jeffschanz
mar 14, 2020, 11:47 am

LShelby - pretty much everything you said about character is correct. It is the basis for most everything in story entertainment, be it movies, animations, or books. It's why I have such trouble with so many current day films, everyone dedicating their time creating snazzy graphics and mesmerizing visuals, and fast moving stuff. Yet, give me a story with well-done, engaging characters and that'll always beat a frenetic, chase-based movie any day. Happens way too much with animations nowadays too. Chase chase chase, insane action, lots of stuff moving - no character development, or plastic characters.
I'm not sure how successful I am at character writing, but I do try my best to focus on that.

23LShelby
mar 14, 2020, 2:30 pm

>20 LeonStevens: "Flight of the Bumblebee? Nice!"

I heard that back when English concertinas were popular in British music halls (the concertina is a very Victorian instrument -- almost steampunk) that The Flight of the Bumblebee was the ultimate 'show off your stuff' piece for it, so I always wanted to try it.

My conclusion: it actually seems very doable, but I am not used to doing half-step runs so it will take a lot of practice before I can get up to speed. Also, I probably want to redo my score. On the English G# and Ab may play the same note, but they are two totally different buttons, and deciding which of the two buttons is better for half-step runs depends on which octave they are in, and so whether they are on the pinky or the thumb side of the button layout. Likewise, there is no such thing as a Db, only a C#, so asking me to play a Db requires some mental gymnastics that I just don't have time for.

Anyway I will probably keep working on it even after my voice recovers, because being able to just pick up my instrument and launch right into it would be so freaking cool. :)

I've actually been practicing half-step runs on my alto recorder too, because I have a couple songs that I keep trying to play that are written in Ab, so I figured it would be a good way of mastering those darned double-holes. (I usually just play from the same music on both recorders and ignore the fact that on the alto everything's transposed down a fifth. Since I'm playing by myself it doesn't matter.)

Speaking of recorders, apparently the eminent British diary writer Samuel Pepys heard a recorder consort much like the one reading_fox belonged to, and was so enraptured that he decided to take up the recorder himself.
Ob. Lit. ref. :)

>21 paradoxosalpha:
To be totally honest, the pennywhistle was my first choice, but they kept getting stepped on or otherwise squished, so I gave up on them.

Do you just play them by yourself, or are you part of some group?
...

I don't have any group to play with except my kids, and they keep heading off to college and there goes the guitar the violin and the saxophone, and its me by myself again. Sometimes I think I should find a musical collaborator whose life is a little more settled.

I occasionally show up at a "hootenanny" where my concertina is a welcome addition to a room filled mostly with guitars, but those have been cancelled until further notice because of the epidemic. :(

>22 jeffschanz:

I'm old enough to be very aware that the special effects get outdated, but good solid stories about great characters stand the test of time.

But at the same time, being more than a little bit geeky, I totally understand wanting to play with the new toys, and see what you can get them to do.

Unfortunately, it's doesn't speak well for the future of an animated movie, when someone asks me what it was like, and I say 'It had totally awesome water effects.' :P

Do you mostly work in 2D or 3D?
...

My own current art project (a book cover) has just received some negative feedback, that was too vague for me to know what exactly I should do to improve matters. I asked for a more detailed analysis of the problem(s) and he asked for time getting back to me on that. ::sigh::

24paradoxosalpha
Redigeret: mar 14, 2020, 2:46 pm

>23 LShelby:

"Squished"? Mine seem sturdy enough. I have the unglamorous kind with plastic mouthpieces. I guess the rolled tin ones are a little fragile.

I have no regular ensemble for my pennywhistling. I used to play in public while waiting for the bus or train. I also have participated in impromptu combos for parties, festivals, and church services. My other instruments are piano (it's been nearly two decades since I owned or lived with one of those) and banjo (where I'm out of practice to the point of incompetence).

My daughter played clarinet at school and has recently taken up ukulele with some zeal, so I've been thinking about arranging something for the two of us.

25LShelby
mar 17, 2020, 9:42 am

>24 paradoxosalpha:
Unglamorous I have no issue with, but rolled tin was what the local music store had on display to tempt the casual browser, and rolled tin does not apparently take well to getting stepped on, and not too much better to ending up at the bottom of a backpack full of heavy textbooks, which was then dropped on the floor. :(

There is a school of philosophy that recommends having one's instruments always out on display, because if you can see them, you are less likely to forget to practice with them, and more likely to just pick them up and play them for the joy of it. But I always keep my concertina in it's case, because I'm worried for its safety. I know my own clutzy ways.

Tinwhistle and ukulele sounds like a good combination. I hope you two have fun! :)

26LShelby
maj 5, 2020, 9:30 pm

So on the art front, I am stalled on the cover I am supposed to be painting. I undoubtedly should get to work on the next one, while I chew over this one.

My husband loved the background, but doesn't like my central figure. (There's an irony for you.) I said 'What should I do instead?', and he said 'Dunno, why don't you try brainstorming on LibraryThing?'

I really don't know how anyone can help out when they haven't read the book.

It's a fantasy adventure, but my heroine is a weaver/tatter, not an action chick. I'm trying to figure out how to present her in a way that is appropriately adventurous without making her look like a fighter.

Or we could try something more symbolic and fashionable, but we haven't thought of any suitable symbols that say adventure, either. Also, the background is cool, so we hate to lose it. Only it's mostly empty Serengeti and sky--very appropriate to the story, but I haven't figured out where to go from there.

27LeonStevens
maj 6, 2020, 8:44 am

>25 LShelby: "There is a school of philosophy that recommends having one's instruments always out on display, because if you can see them, you are less likely to forget to practice with them, and more likely to just pick them up and play them for the joy of it."

Very true. You also don't hide your books, put art in the closet (unless it is really ugly), or hang clothes on the treadmill...(maybe)

28LShelby
maj 8, 2020, 5:22 am

I hide my bric-a-brak in the attic. I've got nowhere else to put it. My shelf space is mostly taken up with books. (Also crafting supplies and boardgames.)

29Denscott
maj 8, 2020, 6:05 pm

>27 LeonStevens:: ("You also don't hide your books, put art in the closet..."

I have to confess that I do store some books which I've had since childhood (now in my 60s), inherited from my father or feel particularly close to in a wardrobe in order to stop them going yellow (or getting any worse). Although in today's digital world I do wonder why I cling to objects for sentimental purposes, no one else is going to want them (as is the way of the world).

30LeonStevens
maj 9, 2020, 9:46 am

>29 Denscott: "Although in today's digital world I do wonder why I cling to objects for sentimental purposes..."

I think that you answered this question. It would make me sad if I didn't have physical books.

"no one else is going to want them..."

If only you want them, then that makes them all the more special.

(Yes LS, we are off topic ;))

31LShelby
maj 11, 2020, 6:46 pm

>30 LeonStevens:
I don't know how attached I am to the physical books.

I know I like the convenience of having 200 books in my backpack (and they hardly weigh a thing!), but except for my own books we don't tend to acquire both physical and ebook copies of anything.

For my own books, with Jade Sea I don't think I yearn for the paper versions.

But for the Coral Palace books, I drew animal totem pillars on the front of the book...
...and then on the back, I put the back side of the pillars. But if you don't buy the physical book, you don't get that front and back effect, and as the artist, I think that is a pity.

But the artwork for Across a Jade Sea, is actually better off in the ebook version. In the paper version it doesn't show as well. (It wasn't really intended to be black & white, for one thing.)

...Look, I managed to bring it back around to the topic!

I keep wandering whether its worth it to try do pen & ink versions of the interior paintings. Also, splitting images between two facing pages. That seems worth trying.

My daughter has recommended some interior artwork for the two science fiction books in the works, so there is a visual representation of the aliens. She thinks its one of those cases where a picture would be worth several thousand words.

32reading_fox
maj 12, 2020, 4:17 am

>26 LShelby: - just skip the central figure and have some craft work as the central image fading into tattered strands in the desert.

33LShelby
maj 12, 2020, 9:33 pm

>32 reading_fox:
This suggestion triggered an image idea so, thanks tons!

I have been doing sketches of all the ideas I get, so that I can lay them out in for my husband and I to look at, so we can discuss a little less vaguely. Looks like I need to add a new one to the list. :)

34LShelby
dec 6, 2021, 12:55 pm

Since my writing is getting along pretty well again, I am feeling the urge to try to add art and music back into my daily routine.

I'm finding it a bit tricky though.

I tend to be able to motivate myself best, when I have some sort of counter, counting up my accomplishments for each day. For writing, I count words.

I have been trying to use minutes spent for art and music, but I find it hard to keep track, especially since I tend to focus so hard that I don't notice the passage of time, anyway.

I was thinking for music I could count "songs practiced". It would generate much smaller numbers than wordcounts, but still something easy to track that I can point to and say "look, progress!"

But what on earth could I use for small increments of art?

35LeonStevens
dec 12, 2021, 10:58 am

>34 LShelby: " But what on earth could I use for small increments of art?"

Often, I am not in the mood to play my guitar, and I often feel guilty of neglecting it. When the inspiration hits, I can write music for a hour or two before stalling. I have to make sure I write it down or I will forget.

Sometimes it's nice to put on a timer and play until it goes off, just to keep that avenue of creativity and craft going

36LShelby
dec 19, 2021, 3:42 pm

Music time went really well until the WIP took over my brain. Now I have my brain back, but I lost the habit. I have to build it back again. :(

I still haven't done any artwork at all. My new plan is to swap my assigned writing and my assigned art time. Previously writing got my best two hours of the day. I'm already in the habit of starting 'work' at that time, hopefully the switch will work out.

I'm hearing you on the write it down or forget it advice. The last time I had a new melody in my head, I was out walking. I didn't try to jot anything down when I got home, and it went goodbye!

37LeonStevens
dec 21, 2021, 8:41 am

>36 LShelby:
Yeah, many a melody has been lost that way.

38MythButton
Redigeret: feb 17, 2023, 8:51 pm

>1 LShelby: Oh, is this the L. Ron Hubbard thread?

Joking aside, if I could create soundtrack for my stories, I would. The problem is that Nialoca is a bit "extreme metal" in terms of vibe, and I don't have a basement big enough to play Flattening of Emotions by Death to the tale of a bunch of zombies attacking two prophetic teenage heroes with magical crystals. It's a very careful line to tread.

However, I always have time to make my own book cover. I practiced that while practicing my writing on a millennial cartoon with some practice fanfictions that helped me. In the context of my first book, which brings me to this.

>23 LShelby:

Lemme see it. I make my own book covers so maybe I can throw in a couple pennies.



This was basically just copying a couple drawings onto MS Paint and tracing over them before saving them into different formats to get the coloring right. The curve tool on MS Paint makes it easy. Afterwaords, I layered those images with a recolorized and spray-painted picture of a cloudy sky, adding the blurred spray-paint border afterwards. The biggest difficulty was positioning the logo, which is not an official typeface but a custom font I concepted a couple years ago before getting serious about its design late last year.

39LShelby
feb 18, 2023, 5:35 pm

Please keep in mind that these are rough and incomplete mock-ups created to give my editor the basic idea of where I was going.

This is the original start I made, where my editor-cum-husband loved the background but hated the direction I was taking the main character.



So then I discussed here and did some sketches and finally roughed out the following...



He said he liked the look better, but he also sat there going, "but why are there no people?"

So I'm currently back to trying to decide what I want to do with the main character, and wondering if I should prioritize working on the covers of the two that are already copyedited instead.

40MythButton
feb 18, 2023, 11:47 pm

I might have to know more about the main character to properly judge. The colorization and activity of the second cover is an improvement, but it does need a human. And maybe it's just me, but spear and yellow dress don't mix. Other than that, it looks fine.

41LShelby
feb 20, 2023, 5:09 pm

>40 MythButton: "And maybe it's just me, but spear and yellow dress don't mix."

The story is about a city girl who marries a nomadic lion-hunter. So the dress and the spear aren't supposed to mix. But its a bit tricky to show with just an image, because the reader will not be familiar with either culture until after they have read the book.

I want to keep the spears. It's an adventure story -- I didn't want to put an action scene on the cover, but I do want the feeling that she is in a dangerous environment.

Anyway, the editor didn't like the dress, the hair or the pose. The dress is incomplete, and I think he will like it better when it's finished, but there's no point in finishing it if I'm going to change the pose.

These are the sketches I did for alternate poses:


The first one seemed a little too agressive. The second one I really liked as an image, but my heroine isn't that serene and stoic. The third one is my most recent attempt, but it isn't making me happy. :(

42MythButton
feb 21, 2023, 7:57 am

Maybe if you put the second pose next to a tree with a spear leaned against it? And make the dress feel a little more modern?

43LShelby
feb 24, 2023, 1:54 pm

>42 MythButton:
I messed around with this for a bit, trying out your suggestions.

I do like the tree, but every time I try take the spear away from my heroine, it feels like something is missing. I might have a bow and quiver and maybe an extra spear leaning against the tree instead? A bedroll?

I will have to disappoint you on the "more modern" dress though. I said she was a city girl, but I didn't say it was a modern city. More like medieval Constantinople, perhaps? But the costumes aren't the same.

(Because I've done not only sewing but also pattern-making, I tend to have a fairly clear idea of what the characters are wearing that has has less to do with "image" and more to do with structure and material. Basically, I could sew myself the native costume of any culture I write in, if I had the right fabrics.)

But I noticed in another thread you mentioned comics. :)

What kind of comics do you do?
Could you share examples?
(You can get any image you want into the LT system by going to your member profile, clicking on "Add Picture", and then under the "Grab from the Web" box, where it says "To where?" change the pull down menu to "Junk drawer". Once the image is in the system, you can use then use the same method that you use for book covers to get the image into a message.
(I never actually use the Junk Drawer, because I have my own website, so I just link to the images there, without copying them to LT first.)

44MythButton
feb 24, 2023, 2:48 pm

>43 LShelby: Thing is,I still have to plan the story more. I've been trying to get a grip on this comic since I was 13. But basically I want to subvert the "too force" as an actual magic system rather than just the reason your eyes bulge like airbags when you're shocked. The whole comic will revilve around that. Plus, I don't like saying too much about unpublished work.

45LShelby
feb 25, 2023, 3:54 pm

>44 MythButton:
In my first online writer's group, the rule was that we could only talk about our unpublished work.

But I know some people find that lose interest if they talk it out too much first.

I would love to have someone talk comics with me. Here's a link to my finished graphic novel in web-comic format.

I had another project that I was drawing instead of cgi-ing, but it got stuck at the inks stage, when my health started deteriorating. :(
I also have a few scripts (and a set of storyboards) that I would like to turn into graphic novels.

46MythButton
feb 25, 2023, 5:46 pm

>45 LShelby: Reading the graphic novel right now.

I noticed the pacing is quite quick, but I'm too early to tell if that's a good or bad thing. However, I have one little criticism so far: something about the dialogue feels incomplete, like there needs to be a little more room for personality to show. Everything gets right to the point of the plot, which is both a positive and a drawback. Whatever character development there is put through in the quick-paced plot, so it doesn't feel like there's quite enough development.

As far as the webcomic version goes, there needs to be more pages like 51 that show the surroundings so that the reader is more familiar with each ship. Other than that, it's a fine space opera. The reinvention of actual historical figures into space pirates flows over fairly well, and the story does have its fair share of excitement. I do want to see where the plot keeps going, and where more pirate references are made. So far I like it.

47LShelby
feb 26, 2023, 3:37 pm

>45 LShelby:
I am relieved to hear your view of the pacing.

When I came back to it and read it through a couple years after I finished it I found myself wondering if it was going too fast, but I couldn't tell if it was an effect of me being too familiar with the material or not.

It's nice to have my vague feeling verified. :)

I started trying to storyboard something without a script the other day... not sure if that's a good idea or not. Anyway, the very first fix I ended up making was going back and doing some more scene-setting panels. ::rueful::

You said you needed to plan your story more. Do you have some sort if script, or an outline or something?

When I get sick I write outlines for theoretical graphic novels, because its something I can do. ::rueful::

48MythButton
feb 26, 2023, 5:40 pm

I really don't want to reveal it until I'm confident in it. And I'm reserving it for after I get more notoriety, anyway.

49LShelby
feb 27, 2023, 5:16 pm

>48 MythButton:
I'm not trying to trick you into talking about what the comic is.

I'm interested in talking about the process of making a comic. :)

50MythButton
feb 28, 2023, 4:12 pm

>49 LShelby: I never thought you were tricking me. I just like keeping things secret until they're ready.

51LShelby
mar 2, 2023, 11:25 am

I have been thinking about the storyboard without writing a script first attempt, and I'm thinking it is not the best way for me to work. But it might work for someone else. :)

I notice that after storyboarding four pages, and going back to do edits, I stopped. And I haven't gone back. I'm thinking its because going straight to the image is harder for me, so there's a greater barrier to continuing that my desire to get the story down doesn't overcome.

Now I'm trying to come up with a adaptation on my previous working method that will encourage me to slow down a bit and do more establishing shots.

(Fortunately I have a lot of time to think about this, because I'm behind 3 book covers that I really need to finish before I can start trying to work on comics again.)

Since you don't want to talk comics, how about covers.

How do you all decide what image you want to put on your cover?