The Tale of Genji

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The Tale of Genji

1astropi
Redigeret: sep 9, 2015, 9:38 am

Talk about a great choice! I would love to own this.

http://www.eastonpress.com/prod/678/THE-TALE-OF-GENJI_3085

A few things I'm not clear about. First, is this a DLE? For the price, it should be. OK, so it's about $200 a book. Frankly I would pay an extra $100 to get DLE features. Secondly, it says

"This exclusive edition features six vintage Japanese illustrations from the collections of the Library of Congress."

However, there are eight illustrations shown on the webpage. So, are they trying to say there are 6 illustrations that have never been published, or what? How many illustrations total? Grrr...

2lilithcat
sep 9, 2015, 9:55 am

You'd think they'd say which translation it is.

3iluvbeckett
sep 9, 2015, 11:03 pm

>2 lilithcat:: EP doesn't like to do that :-(

4astropi
sep 10, 2015, 10:06 am

I'm curious though, if EP noted that the translator was "so-and-so", how many of us would go "Oh, well thank goodness, I was hoping it would be him/her!" Honestly, if they told me it was J. Edgar Hoover I probably would shrug my shoulders.

5jroger1
sep 10, 2015, 10:25 am

>4 astropi:
Some of us, though, do extensive homework to learn which translations are respected by scholars. If I'm going to spend days or weeks reading an important work, I want to know that it is of high quality. Customer Service will find out the translator for us, but we shouldn't have to ask. FS always specifies the translator prominently.

6astropi
sep 10, 2015, 11:41 am

5: I know the FS does indeed say who the translator is. When you read that this text was translated by so-and-so, do you look him/her up? What does it mean to be "respected by scholars"? I honestly can not imagine any work being published by anyone who was not a "respected" scholar. For example, I believe that Richard Burton's translation of the 1001 Arabian Nights is the definitive work. However, others would disagree. I happen to like his archaic style, I think it fits perfectly with such classic literature. Richard Burton is an exception, since he is such a famous figure. However, show me scholar X or Y and again, I would just shrug my shoulders.

7jroger1
sep 10, 2015, 12:01 pm

>6 astropi:
Modern translations can be judged by the publisher (Penguin and Oxford, for example, are usually reliable) and by reviewers in the New York Review of Books and other such publications. Older translations are trickier, though. Britannica and Wikipedia will often list and describe available English translations, and a Google search will often turn up some professors' opinions.

One thing that we all need to be aware of when buying Eastons is that many 19th century translations have been "sanitized" by omitting passages that might "offend Victorian tastes." This is true of the Don Quixote DLE, for example, so I chose to read a newer unsanitized version instead.

8astropi
sep 10, 2015, 1:56 pm

7: Interesting. That's certainly not the case with Burton's Arabian Nights (which by the way, all 17 volumes were beautifully published by EP)! Burton's work is full of explicit sex and temptation and lust (not to mention many so-called anti-Christian stories/ideals).

9jroger1
sep 10, 2015, 2:05 pm

>8 astropi:
I love temptation and lust! Mickey Spillane is my hero!

10lilithcat
sep 10, 2015, 2:26 pm

>6 astropi:

For example, I believe that Richard Burton's translation of the 1001 Arabian Nights is the definitive work. However, others would disagree. I happen to like his archaic style,

That difference of opinion is exactly why the translator should be identified.

11astropi
sep 10, 2015, 2:51 pm

9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkal2bNKZe4

10: I see where you're coming from, but honestly if it was anyone but Burton or anyone that famous I shrug my shoulders. And, if it is someone as famous as Burton, I just assume it's a good translation. So, I think for many people the translator does not matter. Although, I'm not saying it would hurt EP to put it up.

12SilentInAWay
Redigeret: sep 11, 2015, 10:05 pm

Too bad they didn't include a picture of one of the pages of text. I own copies of the Waley, Seidensticker and Tyler translations, so I might have been able to make some comparisons...

Knowing EP's penchant for common domain...I mean classic...reprints, my guess is the 1929 Waley translation (which is, of course, available in inexpensive editions from Dover and The Modern Library). There is an earlier translation, by Genji Monogatari in 1882 -- I seriously hope that they don't go that far back. I love the Seidensticker, but I can't imagine EP paying to publish a book under copyright when there are translations available royalty-free. Speaking of royall-ty, The Royall Tyler translation is too new (2001)...so there's no way...is there?

(Sigh.) -- Surprise me EP....please.

13astropi
sep 12, 2015, 6:34 pm

12: I don't understand why a modern translation should be better than an older translation? What's wrong with the 1882 translation? Personally, I tend to think the further back you go the closer you were to the actual historical events and at any rate you certainly had resources which are not longer available today. So again, why should modern translations be held in higher esteem?

14lilithcat
sep 12, 2015, 6:44 pm

> 13

I do think older translations can be harder for modern readers, simply because we are not used to the language and syntax and style.

In the case of Genji, I would also note that the 1882 translation was of only a few chapters, so I can't imagine why one would read that when one can get a translation of the entire book. (I note that Waley's translation is also not complete.)

15HugoDumas
mar 8, 2016, 7:02 pm

For those considering the Franklin Library edition compared to the EP DLE, the FL edition is a beautiful purple with about 15 B & W illustrations (from 1650 edition), an ornate spine and cover, 307 pages, 10 chapters + introduction. Trans. By Seidensticker.

I have not looked much but see a near new copy on Amazon for $75. So you might want to check with EP on number of chapters and pages in the EP Deluxe edition at that that hefty price to determine if it has more chapters than FL.

16the.refined.library
mar 8, 2016, 7:20 pm

Denne meddelelse er blevet slettet af dens forfatter.

17jroger1
mar 8, 2016, 8:02 pm

>15 HugoDumas:
The FS edition contains 54 color paintings from an early edition and 180 black and white illustrations for $216. It is quarter-bound in silk.
http://www.foliosociety.com/book/TGG/tale-genji-murasaki-shikibu

18HugoDumas
mar 8, 2016, 8:25 pm

>17 jroger1: it is obvious there is no comparison. For those interested (I am not) the FS is the far superior product at a much better value. It's also 1300+ pages meaning FL is a small selection of tales.

19astropi
mar 8, 2016, 11:23 pm

17: Thank you! I have to agree with Hugo here, 54 color illustrations vs 8? Of course the EP edition is full leather and the cover looks amazing. However, as I have stated elsewhere, leather is not a major draw for me these days. Looks like the FS did an amazing job here! Am I the only one that feels that this would have been better as a limited edition?

20HugoDumas
mar 9, 2016, 12:23 am

>19 astropi: it also has 180 B & W illustrations. At $240 this is a bargain, thus it is not a limited edition. If it were it could command a price of $500. An amazing piece of work. I will shortly read my gorgeous FL version to see if I want to graduate to the FS version. the EP version is non-competitive.

21astropi
mar 9, 2016, 1:54 am

20: Ah, sorry I was not clear about what I meant. What I meant to ask was "Doesn't the tale of Genji deserve the full-blown Limited Edition treatment with all the bells and whistles?" I was envisioning perhaps the classic illustrations along with contemporary illustrations by a Japanese artist (perhaps Yoshitaka Amano?) Perhaps some footnotes if necessary. Quarter-bound in leather with hand-marbled paper sides... AH! the possibilities! OK, it would be expensive, but if you got Amano and it was signed I would be all over that...

22jroger1
Redigeret: mar 9, 2016, 9:28 am

>21 astropi:
I agree that explanatory notes are essential in a work from a different culture and time, and the FS edition appears to provide them: "This fine edition features extensive notes on court protocol, poetic allusions and colour symbolism, as well as guides to the characters and several maps and diagrams."

I would not ordinarily be tempted by this title, but this edition sounds almost too good to pass up.

23HugoDumas
mar 9, 2016, 10:42 am

>22 jroger1: I agree. The FS offering seems too good to be true. As soon as I finish my current book I will read my very fine FL Genji, to see if I like it. I will not wait and then have regrets when this FS masterpiece is sold out.

24Arknight
mar 9, 2016, 12:20 pm

>17 jroger1:
That decides it for me. I love the EP cover, but I had already felt it was overpriced and now far more so when comparing it to the Folio specs. I would have considered the older Franklin Library edition, but it doesn't appear to be the entire story, so it looks like Folio came out with an amazing edition just in time.

25JustinTChan
Redigeret: mar 9, 2016, 3:20 pm

>23 HugoDumas:

I wouldn't go that far...content-wise it has a lot to recommend it, but I think the binding is average at best. EP has the better binding design,
but the pricing is EP random.

26JustinTChan
Redigeret: mar 9, 2016, 3:23 pm

>21 astropi:

It probably does deserve an LE, but all the money for that project was diverted into a book about Pears. Sumptuously printed pears.

27Arknight
mar 9, 2016, 3:36 pm

>25 JustinTChan:
Agreed. I wish I could figure out how their pricing logic works. They make Reader's Choice books with color illustrations, some with more than this edition of Genji, for $55.00. Signed books are $100.00, but so are other books of the same size without a signature (See Ender's Game vs. the "Matter of Time" set, both currently offered). One volume of the massive Schoolcraft Indian Tribes DLE is $200.00, yet if you break the total cost of the EP Genji in half ($395.00 / 2), each book is basically the same price, without being a DLE. I'm sure there are other examples, but these are the first that come to mind. To be honest, I would probably still have a hard time choosing between the two of these if the EP books were in the same price range as Folio just because I like the EP cover design, but not for that price.

28jroger1
Redigeret: mar 10, 2016, 7:49 am

Cronshaw has given me permission to copy part of his post from the Folio Society Devotees forum that reviews the FS Genji:
"The Tale of Genji is impressive as you'd expect for a 'fine' edition, with a lot of illustrations, not only colour plates (particularly profuse in the first volume) but also simple line drawings and repeated floral patterning throughout giving quite a rich illustrated feel. The footnotes are detailed without being too intrusive, and there is additionally a comprehensive glossary and further cultural notes and maps at the end of the second volume. The endpapers are the smart metallic gold that Folio have used in a few editions now. I was concerned that the fore-edges of the gold art silk quarter binding might fray with repeated insertion into the slipcase, but the binding has been done very well, with the edges of the art silk impressed into the cloth covers of the board so that they don't sit proud. It's a handsome set."

29jroger1
mar 10, 2016, 7:38 am

Here is a review of the various Genji translations from the "New Yorker" magazine:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/20/the-sensualist-books-buruma

30astropi
mar 10, 2016, 1:18 pm

26: Ha! Yup, I never did figure out the logic of producing 1000 copies of an $800 book on pears. Don't get me wrong, it may be a beautiful book and it's certainly art, but how many people really want to spend $800 on "the most comprehensive study of the apples and pears grown in Britain ever published."

27: Justin is referring to the Folio Society.

31BINDINGSTHATLAST
mar 10, 2016, 3:32 pm

>26 JustinTChan: I do. But I live in an orchard.

32Arknight
mar 10, 2016, 5:42 pm

>30 astropi:
I was responding to his comment that the "pricing is EP random".

33astropi
mar 11, 2016, 4:07 am

32: My bad, sorry :)

34Arknight
mar 25, 2016, 5:02 pm

Just another example of why you should always check your books after you receive them. Just got my Folio Genji set and Volume 2 has the pages bound upside down. Unfortunately, they are closed till next Tuesday so I'll just send an email for now.

35astropi
Redigeret: mar 25, 2016, 5:06 pm

34: Funky! Can you share a pic?
Do you go through the entire book once you receive it? Looking at all the pages? I never do that...

36Arknight
mar 25, 2016, 6:04 pm

>35 astropi:
Well, it's difficult to get a shot with both the cover and the pages visible at the same time (since that's the only way to show it's bound upside-down), but I tried....
And no, I don't go through every page; I just quickly open and flip through for anything super obvious.

37HugoDumas
mar 25, 2016, 7:24 pm

>36 Arknight: all the more reason to inspect every page especially for the expensive books...and then you still do not know until you read the book. I inspected the Three Musketeers on every page....no problem. I read it, and it split in two! Us long time collectors who have not carefully inspected our books are in for surprises. I had 800 leather and wonder how many are defective. Found 20 pages missing in an OOP 2 volume EP set, 20 years after purchase from EP; they graciously gave me a refund. But if I discover a defect in one of my 400 Franklin Library books, I can no longer get a refund; though I have never found an error in a FL book. Books purchased from third parties absolutely must be inspected on every page if you expect a refund, and even then good luck. I had to use eBay and Amazon to get refunds in the past.

38bullylover
Redigeret: mar 26, 2016, 3:34 am

I'm torn between the FS and EP Version. The FS edition is obviously superior in regard to the paintings, illustrations and length, and also price, but the art silk bothers me. For those of you who are not familiar with the term, "art silk" refers to artificial silk. It can be made of cotton, polyester, rayon, nylon, or any of these combinations, and it can also be combined with real silk. Usually, it's just a term for a manmade fabric. It's not known to be long wearing or durable, especially when rayon or nylon is used. Of course, if it's made entirely of bulletproof polyester, that's a different story. Authentic silk is very strong, but will eventually rot in sunlight, has rather poor elasticity, and insects will eat it if it's soiled. I would need to know exactly what type of art silk was used before I would order the FS version. As usual, leather is always the best.

P.S. Happy Easter to all!

39HugoDumas
sep 11, 2016, 6:50 pm

As a follow up and re-reading the post, reading my small 10 chapter Franklin edition, and. comparing FS and EP editions, I sold my plum colored Franklin library edition, because it did not appeal to me. But folks if the Genji tales are important to you there is no comparison. Folio Society is the way to go because it is complete and has superior art illustrations. Granted EP leather is attractive but it is incomplete and contains only 8 color illustrations. My Franklin had dozens of attractive black and white block prints from a famous artist. The Folio Society is still quite beautiful despite the fact it is bound in "art silk".

40jroger1
Redigeret: sep 14, 2016, 12:33 pm

>39 HugoDumas:
I'll second that motion. I chose the FS edition over the alternatives and am very pleased with it.

41Wootle
dec 10, 2019, 4:31 pm

Does anyone here own this and can verify this is a limited editon? What is the limitation. I keep seeing members saying it is limited, but I haven't seen anything to back it up yet. I would like a photo for the album if anyone can supply one.

42jroger1
dec 10, 2019, 4:35 pm

>41 Wootle:
You are right to be skeptical. It is on the DLE page, but nothing in its description says it is limited.

43Wootle
dec 10, 2019, 4:37 pm

>42 jroger1: Readwhiteandblue has it on ebay listed at /400 but with unopen copies. I haven't seen an open copy as of yet.

44jroger1
dec 10, 2019, 4:42 pm

>43 Wootle:
One of EP’s photos shows the title page with the descriptor “Collector’s Edition.” It should say “Limited Edition” if it really is.

45Bacon.And.Eggs
nov 22, 2020, 4:45 pm

Resurrecting the thread to ask the group whether the DLE translator was ever uncovered?

46HugoDumas
nov 24, 2020, 4:45 pm

>45 Bacon.And.Eggs: resurrecting this thread, forgetting about the DLE, to ask if anyone enjoyed reading this book!

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