"Printed in the United States of America"
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1MirandaMaryPiker
Hi, I just discovered this group existed about 10 minutes ago while googling information about it, and I am beyond happy to find there are others out there that are fascnated with this as I am. . I recently started collecting this series myself as we had a few of these with no dustjackets when I was young. I noticed that some books in my series have the words "Printed in the United States" on the... front end paper? if that's what its called, opposite of the table of contentspage on the lower left corner, while several copies are just blank in that very same spot. I don't preally care too much about the worth of my books being first printings or not, as they are already priceless in my eyes, but I am just curious to know what versions I have. Does this show the difference between a first printing and a later state? Is this even the right place to post this kind of question? Thank you
2Collectorator
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4Keeline
These were published by Doubleday, very likely as a book club printing in large numbers of copies. The Happy Hollisters books were also issued by Doubleday (1953-1970) for book clubs (mostly) and trade editions (price on jacket and some other changes) so perhaps observations on when those books used the "Printed in the United States" message would help.
There was a time, much earlier, when the location of the printing (or at least the typesetting) affected the copyright status of books in the U.S. I don't think this is a factor here.
It could just vary by volume number. It would be interesting if the same volume number was seen with and without this message.
Until recently, I don't think a lot of detailed observations of the books have been made. In the 1990s I composed an Excel spreadsheet to list all of the stories in the volumes, including the "A" volumes where some stories were changed to create a new "edition" of the volume.
It stands to reason that the publisher would have to print more of these over time, using the same printing plates (though photo offset was likely used at this point). Hence, there could be variations based on the publisher's method at the time.
Sorry that I don't have a more definitive answer for you.
James
There was a time, much earlier, when the location of the printing (or at least the typesetting) affected the copyright status of books in the U.S. I don't think this is a factor here.
It could just vary by volume number. It would be interesting if the same volume number was seen with and without this message.
Until recently, I don't think a lot of detailed observations of the books have been made. In the 1990s I composed an Excel spreadsheet to list all of the stories in the volumes, including the "A" volumes where some stories were changed to create a new "edition" of the volume.
It stands to reason that the publisher would have to print more of these over time, using the same printing plates (though photo offset was likely used at this point). Hence, there could be variations based on the publisher's method at the time.
Sorry that I don't have a more definitive answer for you.
James
5MirandaMaryPiker
Wow, thank you all so much for your quick responses. I had heard of 10A and 19A before, but I never knew until right now that an 18A even existed! I thought there were only 44! Anyway, I only ask my earlier question because I notice there are a few sellers of these books online claiming to have "first editions"and charging quite a pretty penny for them. How can they all know this for certain with so many subtle differences in the books and none of the usual clear markers for first printings available for this book club series?
For example, I now have two copies of Volume 1, (the one with Abraham Lincoln on the yellow dust jacket cover), and yes, I have noticed slight differences between them. I was surprised to notice that one copy has a tiny number" 1" printed in the lowest right hand corner of the table of contents page, outside of the usual series number location within the Table of Contents "box". Instead, this tiny number "1" is oddly printed directly underneath the illustration of the boy and girl with a globe. On this very same copy, on the opposite page, underneath the illustration of the boy reading a book are the words "Printed in the U.S.A". The second copy I have of Volume 1 has no tiny number underneath the picture of the boy and girl with the globe, no series number in its usual location within the Table of Contents "box", and on the opposite page, directly underneath the boy reading his book are the fully spelled-out words "Printed in the United States of America". Other than these subtle variances, no other differences seem apparent within all the pages and dust jackets of both Volume 1 copies. In the very least, might this serve as simple proof that reprints of each volume actually do exist in slightly different states--even before the later A editions were created?
Tying back to my original question, Ive specifically noticed that Volumes 16, 19, 20, 22 and 26 in my collection right now are completely MISSING the "Printed in the United States of America" marker that is present in all of my other copies so far. The space beneath the boy reading his book in these particular volumes is completely BLANK. So is this proof of yet a third state of the first printing? And the big question still is-- though at this point I suspect that no one knows for sure, how many states were actually printed, and which state is the TRUE first printing?
James, thank you for your detailed response, it was far more than I had even expected. Also, I had to look up what photo offset printing is....you DO know stuff. ;)
Hi, Collectorator, thank you. As for which books I have, I'll have to take the time later to learn how to load them into this site, but I have at least 30 of them with a few doubles that I've been giving away to family members. I only own 19a from among the later A editions so far, the one with flipper on the cover, but I will eventually have to get the other 2 when I can find them. Off the top of my head I don't yet have 21, 23, 25, 31, 35 and 39 ...and this mysterious #25 still confounds me most of all. Volume 25 is a whole other story because its seems to have 2 different dust jacket cover illustrations... I STILL don't know which one to get, or if the sellers just have their dustjackets paired wrong. One photo of #25 online (on etsy right now, and when you do a simple look up of it on amazon) is clearly GREEN, photos of the table of contents stories seem to match what should be in volume 25, but the cover illustration looks identical to the front cover art for the BLUE 10A cover with an illustration of Lassie sitting among flowers. Another photo of Volume 25 currently on ebay is also green, but with a different illustration of a similar-looking dog in an upright standing position... I at least know that the Lassie story is listed as being in book 10 and that the "Lad & the Other the Sunnybank Dogs" story is listed as being in book 25, but what's going on here? Did they use the same cover art twice for 2 different stories and volume editions? Are there any other differences inside the volume other than the cover art being changed on the outside jacket? ....ha... this should be a whole other post! Please have fun checking your copies when you have the chance. ANY clarity you can offer on Volume 25 would really help me out. I'd like to eventually complete my own collection with all 45? different books -- though I suspect the toddlers I am eventually passing these all on really don't care all that much about any of these details right now, do they? ;)
For example, I now have two copies of Volume 1, (the one with Abraham Lincoln on the yellow dust jacket cover), and yes, I have noticed slight differences between them. I was surprised to notice that one copy has a tiny number" 1" printed in the lowest right hand corner of the table of contents page, outside of the usual series number location within the Table of Contents "box". Instead, this tiny number "1" is oddly printed directly underneath the illustration of the boy and girl with a globe. On this very same copy, on the opposite page, underneath the illustration of the boy reading a book are the words "Printed in the U.S.A". The second copy I have of Volume 1 has no tiny number underneath the picture of the boy and girl with the globe, no series number in its usual location within the Table of Contents "box", and on the opposite page, directly underneath the boy reading his book are the fully spelled-out words "Printed in the United States of America". Other than these subtle variances, no other differences seem apparent within all the pages and dust jackets of both Volume 1 copies. In the very least, might this serve as simple proof that reprints of each volume actually do exist in slightly different states--even before the later A editions were created?
Tying back to my original question, Ive specifically noticed that Volumes 16, 19, 20, 22 and 26 in my collection right now are completely MISSING the "Printed in the United States of America" marker that is present in all of my other copies so far. The space beneath the boy reading his book in these particular volumes is completely BLANK. So is this proof of yet a third state of the first printing? And the big question still is-- though at this point I suspect that no one knows for sure, how many states were actually printed, and which state is the TRUE first printing?
James, thank you for your detailed response, it was far more than I had even expected. Also, I had to look up what photo offset printing is....you DO know stuff. ;)
Hi, Collectorator, thank you. As for which books I have, I'll have to take the time later to learn how to load them into this site, but I have at least 30 of them with a few doubles that I've been giving away to family members. I only own 19a from among the later A editions so far, the one with flipper on the cover, but I will eventually have to get the other 2 when I can find them. Off the top of my head I don't yet have 21, 23, 25, 31, 35 and 39 ...and this mysterious #25 still confounds me most of all. Volume 25 is a whole other story because its seems to have 2 different dust jacket cover illustrations... I STILL don't know which one to get, or if the sellers just have their dustjackets paired wrong. One photo of #25 online (on etsy right now, and when you do a simple look up of it on amazon) is clearly GREEN, photos of the table of contents stories seem to match what should be in volume 25, but the cover illustration looks identical to the front cover art for the BLUE 10A cover with an illustration of Lassie sitting among flowers. Another photo of Volume 25 currently on ebay is also green, but with a different illustration of a similar-looking dog in an upright standing position... I at least know that the Lassie story is listed as being in book 10 and that the "Lad & the Other the Sunnybank Dogs" story is listed as being in book 25, but what's going on here? Did they use the same cover art twice for 2 different stories and volume editions? Are there any other differences inside the volume other than the cover art being changed on the outside jacket? ....ha... this should be a whole other post! Please have fun checking your copies when you have the chance. ANY clarity you can offer on Volume 25 would really help me out. I'd like to eventually complete my own collection with all 45? different books -- though I suspect the toddlers I am eventually passing these all on really don't care all that much about any of these details right now, do they? ;)
6Keeline
One of the great reference books on books is ABC for Book Collectors by John Carter. Oak Knoll Press, the current publisher of this book has placed a PDF of the book on the ILAB.org website. I recommend getting a copy of this and reading it whenever you want to learn something more about books.
Good starting places are the entries on "first edition", "first printing", "follow the flag", and "issues and states".
In summary, an edition change implies a change in content, usually a significant one (10% or greater). A "printing" is where the printing plates or other masters were removed from the press.
"Issue" and "state" are nuanced differences in copies of a given printing (usually the first printing) where changes are made before or after the release.
In juvenile series books (Nancy Drew, etc.), the details like the copyright page don't change. Instead, we have to don our sleuth cap and look for other clues such as the format of the book (cloth color, type; endpapers) and advertisements listing other volumes (dust jacket, post-text ads). There are specific guides to the major series (Hardy Boys & Nancy Drew) that let you correlate the ads and formats into a sequence that shows which one should be the earliest. No such reference exists for this series but perhaps details like this may be applied to distinguish between similar copies.
James
Good starting places are the entries on "first edition", "first printing", "follow the flag", and "issues and states".
In summary, an edition change implies a change in content, usually a significant one (10% or greater). A "printing" is where the printing plates or other masters were removed from the press.
"Issue" and "state" are nuanced differences in copies of a given printing (usually the first printing) where changes are made before or after the release.
In juvenile series books (Nancy Drew, etc.), the details like the copyright page don't change. Instead, we have to don our sleuth cap and look for other clues such as the format of the book (cloth color, type; endpapers) and advertisements listing other volumes (dust jacket, post-text ads). There are specific guides to the major series (Hardy Boys & Nancy Drew) that let you correlate the ads and formats into a sequence that shows which one should be the earliest. No such reference exists for this series but perhaps details like this may be applied to distinguish between similar copies.
James
7MirandaMaryPiker
Thank you again James, you've been extremely helpful to a "newbie" like me. Ive downloaded the pdf and look forward to reading it. I'm by no means a serious collector, but am definitely noticing that I seem to be ever-curious and delighted by illustrated books from this time period, so I might as well start learning more. :) The BICB is such a precious little series, I just wish we knew so much more about them. If nothing else, it's just so nice to be able to pull a child away from watching Finding Nemo on her iphone long enough to choose a title from this special collection, have her admire the illustrations and have her hear the older, pre-Disney versions of these classic children's stories.
Update on Volume 25, I've looked closer into the available pictures of it online, and it looks like there are in fact 2 different cover art illustrations for this particular volume. I still don't know which one was printed first, but I do know the stories inside are all exactly the same. Now I know that when I finally acquire Volume 25, I'll only need to buy one copy. :)
Update on Volume 25, I've looked closer into the available pictures of it online, and it looks like there are in fact 2 different cover art illustrations for this particular volume. I still don't know which one was printed first, but I do know the stories inside are all exactly the same. Now I know that when I finally acquire Volume 25, I'll only need to buy one copy. :)
8SaintSunniva
>7 MirandaMaryPiker: MirandaMaryPiker...
I may be the cause of your thinking there are 2 covers for #25, as I put an image of the back cover on for my book (but of course that makes it available here, and probably on Amazon, too, I'm not sure how that works).
I put the back cover because I love that artist's (illustrator's) work!
But maybe there's more to it than that?
I may be the cause of your thinking there are 2 covers for #25, as I put an image of the back cover on for my book (but of course that makes it available here, and probably on Amazon, too, I'm not sure how that works).
I put the back cover because I love that artist's (illustrator's) work!
But maybe there's more to it than that?
