Alter and the deceitful pen of the scribes

I'll be starting Deuteronomy soon, and try to pace it at about 9 chapters a week.

Previous threads are
Prep: http://www.librarything.com/topic/127545
Genesis: http://www.librarything.com/topic/129966
Exodus: http://www.librarything.com/topic/131811
Leviticus: http://www.librarything.com/topic/133405
Numbers: http://www.librarything.com/topic/135184

As in introduction to Deuteronomy, I'll use the interpretation presented in Scribal Culture by Karel van der Toorn.

Kings 23:1-3 mentions the discovery of a new scroll, “the Book of the Teaching*” which underlies “the religious reform carried out by King Josiah in 622.“ The Book of Jeremiah mentions “the Teaching of YHWH*”, and bitterly describes it as the product of “the deceitful pen of the scribes” (Jer 8:8). This found scroll and the deceit are the same book, an early version of Deuteronomy.

KvdT goes on:

“On the surface, the structure of Deuteronomy is simple. The Book contains a farewell speech delivered by Moses shortly before his death. In the context of his address, Moses renews the covenant between God and the Israelites; Deuteronomy is the text of the second covenant, concluded in the land of Moab forty years after the first covenant at Mt. Horeb. The solemn address of Moses consists of a rehearsal of the past events (Deut 1-3); a series of exhortations (Deut 4-11); an exposition of the ‘rules and verdicts,’ also known as the Deuteronomic law code (Deut 12-26); speeches on the occasion of the covenantal ceremony, including conditional curses and blessings (Deut 27-30); and speeches and poems in light of the death of Moses (Deut 31-34)…

Closer inspection of the text, however, reveals the harmony to be deceptive.”

KvdT then goes on to described Deuteronomy as an extended book. There was an original core to the book. Over time editors added more text**. Text may have been removed, but we can’t tell because we don’t have any earlier editions. KvdT identifies four editions. Using his terms these are (1) the original Covenant Edition, then (2) a Torah Edition that added a new opening and several chapters at the end, then (3) a History Edition which provided the final opening and final closing (or colophon). Finally, (4) a Wisdom Edition contributed pieces here and there.

* “teaching” here is the translation of the Hebrew word “Torah”.
** KvdT notes the same “textural growth” is documented elsewhere in the region, and he documents how Gilgamesh evolved. Overtime a few parts were removed and much was added.

The breakdown looks like this:

1. Covenant Edition : 4:45, 6:4-9, 12-16:17, (much of) 17-26, 28:1-57, 28:69

- 4:45 – opening rubric –the original opening
- 28:69 – colophon – the original ending

2. Torah Edition : 5-6:3, 17:8-20, 19:17, 21:25, 28:58-68, 29

- 4:44 – opening rubric
- 29:28 – colophon
- 5 is a prologue

3. History Edition : 1-3, 27, 31-34

- 1:1 – opening rubric –the final opening
- 34:10-12 – colophon – the final ending

4. Wisdom Edition : 4:1-43, (parts of) 19-25, 30

Not specifically placed by KvdT : 4:46-49, 6:10-25, 7-11

The significance of the editions:

Covenant Edition

– Josiah’s reforms
---- an updated (third?) “Book of the Covenant”
---- Centralize Yahweh cult in Jerusalem
---- One god, one temple (the Shema in 6:4 originally followed immediately after the opening rubric in 4:45)

Torah Edition

– Instruction provided by Moses
---- note, Moses gets both an written and oral revelation. Here Moses tells the oral part.
---- “predicts” the Diaspora (28:58-68), dating this as post-Babylonian exile
---- Idealizes a utopian past

– This becomes something like a constitution of a theocratic state
---- primacy of priest (the King is subservient to the priests!)
---- True prophets are like Moses (ie. like priests. No more rogue prophets)

History Edition

– Deuteronomy rewritten to become the basis of a larger historical work
– dim view of history
---- Never again will there be a prophet like Moses (contradiction the Torah edition)
---- Moralizing and Critical of Israelites

Wisdom Edition

– Main concern is on the intellectual significance of the Jewish way of life
---- Laws are instructional
---- Lots of explanations
---- Optimism in 4:29-31 dates this to the Persian period when Jews were permitted to return to Israel.

Anyone reading along or following, let me know.

Deut 31:34 : final touches...

I'm following. I'm curious about the Biblical reference to the oral Torah. I hadn't thought that was there; I thought it was a rabbinical construct.

Robert

I'm here for a bit. Disappearing shortly though, as I'm off to Uganda.

(and will be trying to stay off the internet in spare time)

Anyway, that Moses is a vicious piece of work, it turns out. He hid it pretty well all those years.

Waaaaaaaay behind in Leviticus, but following.

Still reading slowly, so much repetition, and it seems the repetition emphasizes rules and duties much more than story. At some point I'd like to read the books that come after the first five.

This is quite different then the other books. I've only read chapters 1-4, but I'm impressed with the complexity. There is stuff to think about here.

- The text is manipulated, but content is remarkably well-worked into the previous books. The break in concepts are not clear, and the first impression is that so much of the murkiness is cleared up. We are reading interpretation, even if there is an agenda (or several agendas) behind.

- I can see the appeal of this book now. I've always wondered how they ever pulled of Deuteronomy. What a strange argument, a long lost text suddenly found? Who would by that? But, now, I thinking there were these four books and they were anything but clear (although we have to keep in mind they were different then then now). In my imagination there must of been some desire to have all this cleared up...there must have been a feeling that something was lost somewhere along the line. Then the priests offer a found text - how interesting, how exciting. Then the text turns out to be pretty good, and things are explained and they make sense to the 7th-century religious outlook.

- Pardon this weird analogy, but to me it's like today when we watch something like "Saving Private Ryan" and, we probably know it's not true, but still we think to ourselves, that's what D-Day was like. We want this mystery resolved and our Hollywood clergy provided us with a new (found) take on the old.

In re point 3, yes, exactly. It's such a relief, the powerful rhetoricity of the book. I'm horrified, but it's like hearing Sauron give a stump speech, instead of the grinding repulsiveness of much of Numbers, for instance. It's aestheticized, and like you say, the intended audience wouldn't have even found it horrifying, so much.

And point 4 too, yes, exactly. It's the Torah's greatest hits. It's interesting in that regard that the primeval history is basically skipped over in favour of the patriarchal history. If I was sitting there before Moses at his last speech, or if I was looking to this book to wrap everything up in a nice little package, I would feel more uneasy at seeing, say, Cain and Abel left out than to re-present the history of the Jews, not all mankind)

Deuteronomy 1-6

Chapter 1

- Moses begins speech at Arabah, across the Jordan from Jericho
- purpose given : " to expound his teaching"

Recounting
- Promise Land laid out
- some history (12 scouts, curse of the wilderness generation, first failed (and godless) attack on Canaan)

Chapter 2

Recounting
- Wilderness itinerary and conquering of Amorites

List of supposed ethnic changes
- Edomites replaced Horites
- Moabites replaced Emim/Raphaim (mythological)
- Ammonites replaced Zanzummin/Raphaim
- Caphtorim (Philistines from Crete) replaced Avvim

Chapter 3

Recounting
- Wipe-out of mythical Og
- Reuben, Gad & Manasseh settlement of Trans-Jordan

Mose reviews promised land from Mt. Pisgah (aka Mt. Nebo)

Chapter 4

Some explanations
- note the words "teach", "wisdom", "understanding". Karel van der Toorn argues this is one of the main contributions of the Wisdom editors - the final major addition
- "He is God...there is none else"
- thematically ties Creation, Exodus, Sinai, the "current" brink of conquest, and the "future" Assyrian/Babylonian threats
- 4:45 - original Deuteronomy opening, according to Karel van der Toorn

Chapter 5

- recounting and restating the ten commandments.
- 5:28 - "I shall speak to you all the command and statutes and laws..." -- oral torah ?

Chapter 6

6:4 to 6:9 is a catechism, which is currently said twice a day by orthodox Jews (and every Shabbot service by other Jews).
- includes the Shema (6:4), instructions that led to the use of tephilim & mezuzahs
- love - a new word here for how to feel about God. (add alongside fear)
- Originally, this may have directly followed the opening in 4:45-49

Stuff to think about in Deuteronomy 1-6

This is so different it really shifts the whole effect of these books. On one hand this is a long manipulated speech with a weird agenda - something that might be just dreadful to read. On the other hand there is clarity and a new and different kind of complexity. And the change is immediate, and, so far, consistent. I can just feel the brain kicking into gear, finally. In Numbers my brain was either slumbering or hiding in the corner with it hands over its eyes.

a quick list of stuff to think about

1. The complete change in tone, yet somewhat consistent message.

2. The new clarity.

3. Consistencies and inconsistencies.

5. Deuteronomy (as Alter explains) is Greek for the second or repeated law. Hebrew name is Devaraim, or "the words"

4. New emphases: love, teaching, wisdom, understanding

4A. Authors finally accepting that Israel is a tiny nation among giants. So, greatness is redefined as in Wisdom, instead of in might.

5. Emphasis is on Moses as a good leader. Flaws and mistakes aren't mention. Moses's unique access to God is emphasized.

6. ?? there are plenty other things to think about here

Deuteronomy 7-11

Chapter 7

Instructions on entering the promised land. To summarize, wipe out everyone and every sacred thing, no mercy. This is fully explained twice.

Chapter 8

Israelites are told to follow the rules and remember all the wonderful things God did for them (and forget all the terrible things he did to them ??)
Chapter has a "chaismic" structure - that is themes are patterned in an inverted manner.

Chapter 9

God will lead Israelites to Canaan because current residents are wicked, and NOT because Israelites are any good
- recounts Golden Calf
- also mentions Taberah (Num 11), Massah (Ex 17:1-7), Kirbroth-Hattaavah (Num 11) & Kadesh-Barnea (scouts ?? Num 13-14)

Chapter 10

Recounts re-writing of Ten Commandments

note new descriptions of God
- 10:14 "God's are the heavens and the heavens beyond the heavens, the earth and all that is in it."
- 10:17 "He is God of gods and the Master of masters, the great and mighty and fearsome God..." - spoken in Amidah, three times daily by Orthodox Jews

Chapter 11

Restating a lot of stuff. Theme is something like: love and fear God—because he did all this great stuff—and you will get good stuff—or else...

note blessing on Mt. Gerizim (a green mount), curse on Mt Ebal (a desolate mount)
- chapters 12-26 are all laws. Mt. Gerizim & Mt Ebal are mentions here just before, and, apparently, again just after (chapter 27)

note rain
- In Egypt water comes form the Nile
- In Israel, water comes from rain, which is unpredictable and hence attributed to God's blessing, or lack thereof.

Deuteronomy 12-26

laws, laws, laws. Most of this is restating the laws in Exodus with the key addition that many rituals shall only take place in "the place the LORD your God chooses to make His name dwell there", which means only accepted temples, which really means only in the main temple in Jerusalem. So, local rituals that used be religious now must be secularized. Local sacrifices are out, which forces a legal coding that local butchery can no longer be a holy ordeal, but purely secular. This causes some problems for Passover. The centralization also leaves Levites out of work. They are now grouped with sojourner, orphans and Widows!

Alter also claims there are humanitarian elements added in here (which only shows that everything is relative.)

Chapter 12

- "utterly destroy" everything in the promised land related to other religions - all cultic sites, etc.
- other laws on sacrificial places, eating meat, on Levites, and other stuff - obviously some of this is important for this book, but it didn't come across as well structured, to me. Very random.

Chapter 13

A warning against false prophets (even if their portents come true), and other straying towards other religious cults and practices.

Chapter 14

Laws on mourning, eating and crop tithes - theme is that these laws would keep Israelites separate from other people.

Chapter 15

- Laws on helping the poor, letting loans go after seven years and freeing (Israelite) slaves after seven years.
- Israelites are now all "brothers"
15:4 "there will be no pauper among you" if you heed all the laws
15:11 "for the pauper will not cease from the midst of the land"
It seems that heeding all the laws is not such a promising aspiration...

Chapter 16

- Festival of Flatbread, Weeks & Huts (Passover, Pentecost & Succoth)
- Some of these now require a pilgrimage to Jerusalem
- laws on judges

Chapter 17

more laws that transition into selecting judges and then finally, to selecting a king - the King who the LORD your God chooses".

note 1 : The King must keep the teaching; which means the highest authority is the one who interprets the laws—the head priest is now over the king! Almost certainly this law was added when there wasn't a king around to protest - so post-exile.

note 2 : Levitical priests - this is new. There are no longer classes of Levites?

Chapter 18

Levites and prophets
- 18:15 "A prophet like me...the LORD will raise up"
- 18:18 "I shall put my words in his mouth"
- How do you identify a false prophet - the spoken "thing does not happen" - but that doesn't jive with chapter 13...sigh

Chapter 19

Asylum towns for accidental murder.
the "eye for an eye" thing again.

Chapter 20

- A battle cheer, battles laws and various exemptions from military service.
-Bans on Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites , Hivites & Jebusites (I think we've come across Hivites, but do we ever find out who the Perizzite or Jebusite is?)
- don't cut down eating trees for siege equipment

Chapter 21

Many interesting laws
- A ritual for when you find a murder victim and no murders - "Our hands did not shed this blood, and our eyes did not see."
- Ritual for abusing woman captives - "but you shall certainly not sell her for silver"
- Rules on first born, even undesirable first born
- how to kill your wayward & rebellious sons
- "a hanged man is God's curse"

Chapter 22

Laws on the theme of don't mix. So, for example, no cross-dressing.
- these include laws on premarital sex, accusations of premarital sex and rape. Justice is not served. Woman found innocent are awarded - to stay with their accusers or rapists.
- The woman is responsible for her own rape in town, but not in the "field"

Chapter 23

Laws on things like not marrying your step-mother, the impurity of sexual mutilation, how soldiers should take a dump, protecting escaped slaves, against prostitution (female and male), against charging interest, vows, and eating from other peoples land.

Note Genesis references
- "do not uncover your father" - points to Ham and Noah. Ham is the father of the Canaanites
- Ammonites & Moabites bad - points to Lot and his daughters, their Genesis forefathers
- Edomites and Egyptians OK! In Genesis they were...but not afterward. Weird.

Chapter 24

Miscellaneous laws on re-marriage, pawning millstones, capturing people for slaves, skin blanchs (text refers to Leviticus) and other stuff on slavery
- "writes her a document of divorce" - this is new

Chapter 25

More miscellaneous laws on flogging, woman breaking up fights and seizing "his pudenda", against fraud, against Amaleks

and about taking your dead brother's wife (men only) to preserve the name. If you don't, she spits on you, takes off your sandal, you become "the House of the Slipped-Off Sandal"! (- eh? The more I think about this the more entertaining it becomes.)

Chapter 26

First "full fledged" biblical liturgies on offerings from the first yield, and third-year tithes. And a closing about the laws : "keep and do them with all your heart and with all your being"

I read this wee little tome back in 2008, and I couldn't manage to get myself to dive back in, again. 'Just wanted to mention that, as the King of the Lurkers, I am really enjoying these posts. You Salonistas are saints!

Thanks for the note, S-dog. I'm on a down swing of enthusiasm. I think I'll still make it to Joshua, but I might take a break first.

Now starting to read Alter's introduction to Deutoronomy. It looks like it's going to be more of the same stuff we've seen in the previous two books: recap of the events of the last 40 years, then more laws and regulations. Not too much death and massacre from the look of it.

For the moment my own motivation seems to be intact, we'll see if it survives this new but somehow the same book.

I found D 12-26 tough. But other chapters have been interesting. Just finished chap 28.

Finished the first chapter. The style is very different from previous books. No more dry minimalist style. Alter in his introduction and notes repeatedly uses the term rhetorics, and this matches my first impression as well.

Yeah, it made it a relief to read, awful as it is.

Deuteronomy 27-34

Chapter 27

After the laws, the twelve tribes gather on Mt. Gerizim & Mt Ebal to listen to the Levites call out twelve curses. "Curse be he whom...And all the people shall say, 'Amen.'"

note - the teachings should be etched on plaster (The teaching is maybe the laws in 12-26 ??)

Chapter 28

A few blessings, then "if you do not heed {the laws and whatnot}...all these curses will come upon you.", then a lot of curses. Reminiscent of Leviticus 26.

28:49 "The LORD will carry against you a nation from afar..."
28:65 "And the LORD will scatter you..."
Also note - many parallets to the 672 bce treaty of the Assyrian emperor Assarhadon with his vassals

What is implied is that this was written in response to the loss of the northern Kingdom of Israel (722 bce), as a "prediction" and as a warning to the Kingdom of Judah. Or maybe it "predicts" the loss of both kingdoms.

Chapter 29

This to me sounds like a sermon. We get history, a sense that a new covenant is happening, warnings (with clear references to Sodom and Gomorah). Lots worth quoting:

29:3 "But the LORD has not given you a heart to know and eyes to see and ears to hear until this day."

29:16 "And you saw their abominations and their foulness, wood & stone, silver & gold, that were with them..."

Alter comments on how Rashi associated the word interpreted here as "abominations" as something closer to turds... OK, now read it again, and replace "abominations" with "shit". Here, I'll post it again for effect: "And you saw their shit and their foulness, wood & stone, silver & gold, that were with them" oh?

29:27 "And the LORD tore them from upon their soil in wrath and in anger and in great fury and flung them into another land as on this day"

Another reference to the lost norther Kingdom of Israel (and favoring the southern Kingdom as superior, based on it's continued existence at that point)

29:28 "Things hidden are for the LORD our God and things revealed for us..."

Chapter 30

Again this sounds to me like a sermon. Here there is some hope. 30:1 "your heart shall turn back" and 30:3 "He shall turn back and gather you in". Also here the reader is requested to make a choice between good and bad. And, of course, we still have curses

Alter says this is a reference and response to chapter 28. But, after all the bad news in 27-29, I think it could apply to all three. (I have a theory here. I see Chapter 29 as an explanation that the bad stuff that has been witnessed (722 or 587 bce) was part of the curses. But here is the crew that held on to their religious beliefs despite all that. Hence they will re-obtain God's blessing - he will turn back.)

Chapter 31

This feels like a conclusion by Moses. The listeners are told to be strong and courageous. Also they are told to read the D teachings a Succoth every seven years. And then doom:

31:16 "...this people will rise and go whoring after other gods..."
31:17 "And my wrath will flair against them on that day, and I shall forsake them and hide My face from them..."
31:19 "...this song will be a witness against the Israelites."

Chapter 32

The Song of Moses - all doom and gloom. But interesting structure, and note the polytheism.

Chapter 33

Then a blessing, if an opaque one. As Altar says, it's mangled. Note that Simeon is not mentioned and Reuben's future is bleak. "Let Reuben live and not die."

Chapter 34

The death of Moses on Mt. Nebo. "no prophet again arose in Israel like Moses" (This is, of course, intended as a compliment)

Some other stuff:

Alter notes four layers in Deuteronomy.
1. old sources
2. the original Deuteronomic source (circa 622 bce)
3. a post-exile editor
4. a final "redactor"

from Kugel

1. Deuteronomy reflects the fall and restoration of the nations of Israel.

2. "in a sense all aspects of Jewish and Christian devotion find at least part of their origin and inspiration in these words of Deuteronomy"

3. Kugel links the "starkness" of the choices of good or ill to all future extremism and asceticism.

4. The Hebrew word for "love" is 'ahab...so go re-read Moby Dick

5. Kugel argues that "love" in Deuteronomy means something different than what we think today. It is used along with "fear", and "obey" and "serve", and not used otherwise. The implication is that these four words were considered roughly synonymous.

6. Kugel concludes with a discussion on the gaps in perception through time:

- first is the original intended historical sense of the documents
- The ancient interpreters didn't see it this way. For them the book was a moral guide. This takes us from Roman times through the Renaissance
- Modern scholarship has now entirely undone the ancient scholarship

- So, what now?

And now I that I've finished Alter and have to face Joshua without his guidance, I see how much I've appreciated his interpretation and notes. He has been a first-rate guide through this stuff.

Yeoman work dch: I've been listening behind the arras.

So, while reading this I've also been reading more of Surpassing Wonder by Donald Akenson. Akenson is proud of his own irreverence. Also, IMO, he is overly confident and simplistic...and very interesting.

His take is that the Bible from Genesis through Kings is one work composed during sometime after Babylonian exile. His background is that we must look at the writers as members of the elite. When Babylon wipes our Judah, the don't kill everyone and they don't deport everyone. They are selective. The leadership, the elite and the valued (including the scholars) are sent to Babylon where they can be used. The common labors and whatnot are left in Israel. Also, apparently, many fled to Egypt (oh, the apparent irony)

So, later the Judahist can return. But, how do they take back their authority? They need to win everyone over again, and maintain their elite status. So, in come our writers. They take the sacred writing and collect them into a historical narrative (Genesis through Kings) and create a religion. Then they return and, with religion in hand, in the book, re-establish their status and authority.

Akenson then goes on to the implications. Such as that the Kingdom of Israel is preserved in the book as a lesser kingdom, thereby creating for Judah a subject state. (normally, if Judah had merely conquered them, their history would be wiped out). And Egypt...there are elites in Egypt too. This was a problem, so the book emphasizes that Egypt is bad. Don't go there.

All this makes me feel like I need to start reading these books all over again.

#31 thanks Porius!

As always, I'm behind you, although I think I caught up a little by basically putting Infinite Jest aside for the moment. I'm at chapter 10. And I'd be willing to follow through with whatever is next (Joshua, right?), but maybe after a break. I think Alter published a translation of that part too, yes?

#32 "All this makes me feel like I need to start reading these books all over again."
I've been lurking but so intrigued by many of the comments on Alter's book that I feel I need to do the same. Or rather than "intrigued" perhaps I've been shaken into accepting the truth that the OT God is a very nasty man indeed.

Flo - Alter hasn't published Joshua or Judges or several other books. He has published the following:

The David Story: A Translation with Commentary of 1 and 2 Samuel,
The Book of Psalms: A Translation with Commentary
The Wisdom Books: Job, Proverbs, and Ecclesiastes: A Translation with Commentary

I'm going to take a few days off and think about how to approach Joshua. I'm happy to use the KJV, but I really want notes.

PossMan - After Genesis, which is really something special, this nasty biblical god was the main thing I took home too. And I've been wondering about what the value of this was. It's so curious.

After reading Akenson I'm thinking about it as subjugation...as scaring people into submission. Perhaps I'm just easily led...

I kind of fell off this read at the end, but Dan, I want to thank you for all your work and thoughtful exploration. If Alter's notes had been annotated with your notes, the book could have been even more interesting (and long).

36: Oh, I thought he was taking them in order, apparently that's not the case. Bummer.

Scaring people into submission sounds about right, although there is also the part about being especially chosen. Pride and fear.

And I second MM's comment. I don't think I would have gone this far without the motivation and insights you provided. Thank you!

Appreciated, but you all are too nice. This is the group where group reads of Moby Dick, The Magic Mountain, The Brother Karamazov and Infinite Jest (among many other great ones) changed the way I read because the group leaders were so well informed and worked so hard to put all their comments together. This was unplanned and all I did was type up summaries.

The motivation came from having you all involved. I think we've been pushing each other along. So, thanks for sticking around and continuing to read with me.

Anyway, I think there are 66 books. We've only done five. :)

37> We have been educated to see God as a benevolent figure, but that is not the case of the majority of gods, I think. Many of them were like humans, only more powerful: unpredictable and dangerous, wielding their powers arbitrarily, but liable to be - not controlled I guess, but made more amenable by following the correct cultic procedures. Just like this YHWH guy. He bore a lot of resemblance to the competition - the other gods that were active in that period and era.

In a way I feel this makes sense. If you're going to invent higher powers that have control over the world, you have no choice but to make them arbitrary and dangerous. Otherwise there's a lot of things that are going to be hard to explain.

Under the understanding that this isn't a "pimp," I thought I'd share my wrap-up thoughts. Some are old and some are new. I've had some awkward moments with YHWH's followers lately, as discussed in other threads, but I'm glad I finished this book before coming to Uganda, as I can imagine it having led to further consternation.

http://www.librarything.com/work/45428/reviews/85248836

>42 FlorenceArt: A big yes to your second paragraph.

Great stuff Martini! I like the part on the anecdotes and I'm glad we have been saved from those umbrellas.

Nice and Hard work DC !
appreciated

Thanks Mac!

Finished, finally! I'll be happy to take a break before moving on to the following books. Like dchaikin, I'm afraid I will feel a bit lost without Alter's guidance...

I read not long ago about the opposition between the God of fear in the old testament and the God of hope in the new. Unfortunately I can't remember who developed this idea, was it Augustine? Anyway, I can certainly see the hate and the fear. Though I'm not too sure the love part applies to the whole of the new testament...

Anyway, it's a bit discouraging that this book is the basis for the three most powerful religions of our time.

I think I'd like to read some of the books dchaikin referred to. But first I must finish Infinite Jest. And then I think I'll read a few silly and futile books before tackling serious stuff again...

Flo - congrats! This book was an accomplishment. I have thoughts on some of your comments, but they are not worked out. I want to break these five books down into key themes, and then explore why these themes became central and then wonder why the Judaism I'm familiar with is philosophically so far removed from anything here (but, of course, maintains several tangible things like exodus and the festivals.)

As for the Book of Joshua, I'm thinking of starting June 1. But, if you'll read along with me, I can postpone longer. Any suggestions on a starting time?

I'd be very happy to read along with you, but I don't want to hinder you. I can start on the first of June if that's your plan.

Will others want to join us? I hope so! I don't know what the original plan was, was it to read the whole Bible or just the first five books?

Awesome

Some explanation:

The original plan was just Alter. My personal plan was to continue on until I give up or reach the end of the NT.

I think Martin is the only other person likely to read with us beyond Alter, but I don't know his plans. He's not in a great place to get books, but I imagine a bible of some sort is probably within reach.

Also, certainly some other people could follow and comment (... and possibly, but hopefully not, kick these threads off le Salon. For the record, I'm OK with that. If these threads go outside the le Salon scope, whoever may determine it, I will move the threads elsewhere. But, I would prefer them here.)

Anyway, I'll start a thread later this week and take a roll call to see if anyone is following. Would love it if you joined, but I understand if you would rather not. No pressure here, pressure sours the reading experience.

In Uganda?!?!? Everyone sees me walking down the road reading David Copperfield and thinks it's a bible and congratulates me on my devotion. Yes, I wil join for Joshua.

super awesome - we have three! (I had a hunch you might find a copy...)

51 LOL

Joshua fit the battle of Jericho. I'll be watching and possibly rereading.

Robert

I just started the Joshua thread here: http://www.librarything.com/topic/137927

Finally, my review-ish bit on Deuteronomy, on my thread here (message #241): http://www.librarything.com/topic/128182#3440428

Good review. Love that last paragraph for pith.

Thanks Martin!

Posted comments on Alter, although not sure I should have: http://www.librarything.com/topic/138560#3472119